reduce slot size

[Pete Mack]

I tend to agree with bron on this one: the quiver should have a maximum capacity, somewhere in the neighborhood of 150. (That's a generous estimate of the number of arrows that you can pack (with hexagonal packing) into an actual 6" quiver. It's also a reasonable estimate of the number of arrows it takes to kill Morgoth.)

(I would set it at a round number of pack slots, so if pack slots have a max of 99, use 198. If pack slots have a max of 75 or 30, use 150.)

Alternatively, you can use an UnAngband like model: you have a single "bag" in which you can keep a set of 5 object types and up to (say) 100 objects, each of 0.5 lb or less.
(ie: scrolls, potions, jewelry, and ammo.)


This means you can always carry a few scrolls and potions of choice, but you can't carry a crazy excess of ammo.

The details of how many objects in the "quiver" correspond to a single pack slot is left as an exercise for the beta tester.

[bron]

I view the quiver as simply meaning that all ammo can merge, instead of requiring the same sval/tval/ego/plusses.

I have to admit, I find this a compelling argument. So I find I now agree that the "right" way to reduce the power of the quiver is to reduce the slot capacity, keeping the simple and consistent paradigm, rather than introduce some arbitrary limitation as I proposed earlier.

But while I think the proposal is good, I also think that it is essentially an attempt to tweak something that has more fundamental problems. It would be better to figure out what's going to be done to nerf archery first, and then try to tweak that. But since that is a longer and more difficult road, this might be a reasonable interim thing.

[TJS]

Any plans for the home to work in the same way as the quiver?

[PowerDiver]

Any plans for the home to work in the same way as the quiver?

I'm in favor of an unlimited home, but I would not be surprised by a consensus against a home quiver based on peripherally related comments I've read in the past.

There is also a development issue involving a home quiver. The strange noun-verb inversion in stores means that the number chars '0' through '9' are already being used. While it is possible to make use of letters 'C' and above, that's the sort of extra special casing that will make things take longer, and developers may prefer to put off even considering it until after the next time stores are redone.

[Magnate]

I'm in favor of an unlimited home, but I would not be surprised by a consensus against a home quiver based on peripherally related comments I've read in the past.

There is also a development issue involving a home quiver. The strange noun-verb inversion in stores means that the number chars '0' through '9' are already being used. While it is possible to make use of letters 'C' and above, that's the sort of extra special casing that will make things take longer, and developers may prefer to put off even considering it until after the next time stores are redone.

While I accept the rationale for the noun-verb inversion (easier for non-keyboard input), I don't like the scrolling in stores/home. IMO a sequence of pages would be much better - and would also solve this problem.

I don't know what I think about expanding the home - I can think of arguments both ways. To help my thinking, can someone explain why we should expand the home but not the pack?

[TJS]

While I accept the rationale for the noun-verb inversion (easier for non-keyboard input), I don't like the scrolling in stores/home. IMO a sequence of pages would be much better - and would also solve this problem.

I don't know what I think about expanding the home - I can think of arguments both ways. To help my thinking, can someone explain why we should expand the home but not the pack?

I personally much prefer the way stores work now with the scrolling. When explaining to someone how to play Angband the other day one of the only things he picked up straight away with the interface was the store behaviour.

I can't play old versions/variants now since I find the older interface really annoying.

[zaimoni]

I don't know what I think about expanding the home - I can think of arguments both ways. To help my thinking, can someone explain why we should expand the home but not the pack?

Expanding the pack gives yet more opportunities for Yet Another Stupid Death -- by carrying too much. We just need the super web backpack to be even more super by not having a slot limit.

(Note that the relative order of the equipment and pack slots has to be inverted first, but this is a fairly rote code transformation.)

[ewert]

I would prefer an expanded home rather than the current one. I would probably play with an unlimited home if I could.

The difference being pretty major in that carrying inventory is what you "can" do, whereas home is just a storage area. Sort of like a superspecial store. I dislike stores not having WoR _ALWAYS_ available so bad, as well as the basic spellbooks etc., that if I could buy them and store some at home that would rock. It is usually by midgame atleast that I need to throw every basic consumable out of home to make room for gear, like WoR/restores, etc...

[Rizwan]

I would prefer an expanded home rather than the current one. I would probably play with an unlimited home if I could.

The difference being pretty major in that carrying inventory is what you "can" do, whereas home is just a storage area. Sort of like a superspecial store. I dislike stores not having WoR _ALWAYS_ available so bad, as well as the basic spellbooks etc., that if I could buy them and store some at home that would rock. It is usually by midgame atleast that I need to throw every basic consumable out of home to make room for gear, like WoR/restores, etc...

Me too. I would love more/unlimited home storage.

[Magnate]

Me too. I would love more/unlimited home storage.

The more I think about this the more I dislike the idea. I'm a packrat and I have enough trouble stopping myself recalling every five minutes as it is. After no selling is implemented I'm going to campaign to get rid of the home altogether ... ;-)

[ewert]

If I knew how to code it, I would change home to be a home with a doorway that only player can cross (permanent rune would do it I guess), then have "rooms" with one library (books and scrolls), one armoury (for weapons and armor), one kitchen (for edible and drinkable stuff) and a storage room for everything else, all being a "home" inventory. :P That'd prolly be enough storage ... =P And maybe the bedroom, that is actually an entrance to a special lvl that forces the stores to restock, mwahahahaha!

[AnonymousHero]

The more I think about this the more I dislike the idea. I'm a packrat and I have enough trouble stopping myself recalling every five minutes as it is. After no selling is implemented I'm going to campaign to get rid of the home altogether ... ;-)

I've found that an unlimited home actually speeds up my game play. I spend *way* less time in town agonizing over stuff like "Should I throw away Belegennon, Isildur, or that Balance DSM that might come in handy?". Much quicker to just dump everything you think you might need into the home.

It also means you won't get into situations where you've thrown away one of two or more items which work really well together, but are lackluster on their own. (Items with aggravation come to mind.)

[Pete Mack]

@ewert--
You walk north and enter your bedroom.
Wideset golden eyes shine from under the bed.
There is an iron key on the dresser.
To the east, you see a walk-in closet, closed with a heavy padlock.

[Caveat: I'm not actually in favor of mini-games--I certainly don't miss bargaining in stores]

[Rizwan]

The more I think about this the more I dislike the idea. I'm a packrat and I have enough trouble stopping myself recalling every five minutes as it is. After no selling is implemented I'm going to campaign to get rid of the home altogether ... ;-)

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooo

Also I hope the no selling is an option right? Right?

[Matthias]

I've found that an unlimited home actually speeds up my game play. I spend *way* less time in town agonizing over stuff like "Should I throw away Belegennon, Isildur, or that Balance DSM that might come in handy?". Much quicker to just dump everything you think you might need into the home.

It also means you won't get into situations where you've thrown away one of two or more items which work really well together, but are lackluster on their own. (Items with aggravation come to mind.)

This. Infinite (well 17 page) home is one reason why hengband is so much fun. The new ego DSMs will only increase situations where you're forced to sell items you might or might not need.