Sauron is down, what's the plan now?

**Nick** · December 11, 2009, 11:06

Originally posted by cofresi

Several threads recommend to fight him in the corner of the map or find a vault with perma walls and use it to limit summons. others teleport him and *destruct*. One even rifted him to death (!). I just need advice on what works best (besides getting a lot of mana potions and fighting on a near empty stomach).

Corner can be good; bolts will work well; melee can be handy. Create doors, plus rift when he open the door works well.

Also, how do I post my dump. Mostly so that all may chuckle at my preposterous turn count.

Click the ladder tab, and go to the "Submit character" section.

**fizzix** · December 11, 2009, 14:06

Originally posted by cofresi

Here's to hoping I don't jinx this. It's been over 13 years and for the first time I'm at 4950 and Sauron is no more. But I need a real game plan for killing Morgie with a gnome mage. I have bolts of holy might and Umbar which will go a long way but will not finish the job. I just need a valid win, hockey sticks and asc asides (both of which will not work against him anyhow).

Several threads recommend to fight him in the corner of the map or find a vault with perma walls and use it to limit summons. others teleport him and *destruct*. One even rifted him to death (!). I just need advice on what works best (besides getting a lot of mana potions and fighting on a near empty stomach).

Also, how do I post my dump. Mostly so that all may chuckle at my preposterous turn count.

I think a lot of it depends on how much healing and restore mana you have. A stack of holy might arrows will take him down quite a bit.

Anyway, here's my wienie strategy for Morgoth (for a Mage). This assumes 0% fail rate on Teleport other and phase door. When you get to the level, banish Zs and Ls (and Us if you want). Then teleport around making destruction zones. Specifically get the sides of the dungeon all destructed up, because teleport is more likely to send you there than to the middle of the dungeon. (be careful not to get Morgoth in the blast or you'll need to start over.)

When you see Morgoth coming, try to get in a horizontal (or vertical) line with him and then stone to mud towards him. Let him break the last wall. And then fire. You may only get one shot off before a summon but that's ok.

If he summons (not wimpy): If you want to pick up ammo. TO him, get rid of the summonees (banish or TO) and pick up ammo, then remake the destruction zone. If you don't want to pick up ammo yet, phase out of LOS, banish summonees, and get in position again where you can get a line towards him. repeat this process.

If you take any damage. phase and CCW (or healing w/o phase if you have a ton or are nearing the end of the battle.)
If you drop below ~600 hp, but more than about 400. Use !healing
If you get hit by a manastorm. Use !*healing* or !Life

When you run out of bolts, repeat with manastorms, but phase and !rmana when you start running low.

When your destruction zone doesn't offer sufficient LOS cover after phases. TO Morgoth and redestruct.

If the destruction zone fills up with dangerous uniques and you can't reasonably TO them, teleport to another zone.

Hope this helps. It is truly the strategy for wienies like myself.

This strategy relies on the fact that phasing into LOS will not happen. This has happened exactly once to me (in maybe several hundred attempts), so it can happen to you. This is why if a manastorm will kill you, you don't want to risk phasing (unless you have little !healing and no choice)

**cofresi** · December 11, 2009, 17:25

Thanks for the advice. Just posted the dump.

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=9668

**fizzix** · December 11, 2009, 19:44

I noticed that Gothmog and Lungorthin were still alive. You might want to hunt them down. I'm surprised you haven't found any of the elven rings yet! Fire immunity makes both of them easy. You also need more !rmana and probably more healing too.

Swapping in thorin and going without rnether for the extra HP might be worth it. That damage with holy might bolts is huge!

**cofresi** · December 12, 2009, 06:18

Finally got my rematch with Lundg and he dropped Vilya!

Making great progress with Uniques.

How do I update my character dump as opposed to just leaving a comment?

**d_m** · December 12, 2009, 06:24

Just upload a more recent dump with the same name--it should automatically update the old one.

**Nightmarjoo** · December 13, 2009, 10:18

Get staff of magi and/or potions of restore mana, and manastorm Morgoth to pieces; mass genociding and healing (and phase dooring) as needed.

**cofresi** · December 15, 2009, 06:12

Morgoth is no more. Long Live the King!

At last, the deed is done. And what an epic fight it was. ran out of !*Healing* and had to risk potential death by undead adds 2/3 into the fight. Emptied 2 quivers of Seeker bolts of holy might & Slay evil from Umbar and he kept coming.

Emptied my staves of the magi (and forgot to bring Tenser's !). down to no mana pots: he was down to 1 * and I was down to my last mana load. Went for it and mana stormed him thrice. And he was no more! Felt so sweet.

---
[Holds up a medallion ] "I'm a Prince, a Genuine Certified Prince!" (Lonestar - Space Balls).

**Philip** · December 15, 2009, 07:27

Originally posted by cofresi

[Holds up a medallion ] "I'm a Prince, a Genuine Certified Prince!" (Lonestar - Space Balls).

What a great movie. I saw it.

**dhegler** · December 17, 2009, 18:26

The BEST strategy I use on uniques and worked on Morgoth is to get him down a long hallway, using seeker bolts of holy might, or other seeker bolts, and manastorm the spot right next to him. He tunnels, so down a long hallway he may be off 1 character line (up or down):

###############
@
############p

He is not in line of sight, but you can fire missiles and manastorms at him (helps with staff of the magi) and hit him. It almost feels like cheating (maybe it is considered cheating) to have him in your missile path, but out of his LoS.

##################
@---------\
########p--------X <-- aim at the X so your missile crosses one line down and hits him
##################

I would hit him a dozen times this way, teleport myself, restore my mana, heal (if needed) and repeat.

I never really see any tips about this trick of firing missiles at someone while not in their LoS... Is that because people may consider it cheating?

**Marble Dice** · December 17, 2009, 18:32

Originally posted by dhegler

The BEST strategy I use on uniques and worked on Morgoth is to get him down a long hallway, using seeker bolts of holy might, or other seeker bolts, and manastorm the spot right next to him. He tunnels, so down a long hallway he may be off 1 character line (up or down):

###############
@
############p

He is not in line of sight, but you can fire missiles and manastorms at him (helps with staff of the magi) and hit him. It almost feels like cheating (maybe it is considered cheating) to have him in your missile path, but out of his LoS.

##################
@---------\
########p--------X <-- aim at the X so your missile crosses one line down and hits him
##################

I would hit him a dozen times this way, teleport myself, restore my mana, heal (if needed) and repeat.

I never really see any tips about this trick of firing missiles at someone while not in their LoS... Is that because people may consider it cheating?

It comes up. Hockey sticks are an instance of the general technique. The specific exploit you are referring to is usually called "trick shots." Some people call it cheating, most people think it should be either taken out or made obvious so you don't have to do the calculations manually.

I've never heard advice to use this technique on Morgoth though, it's interesting that he is vulnerable to it because he bores through walls.

**fizzix** · December 17, 2009, 18:51

Originally posted by Marble Dice

It comes up. Hockey sticks are an instance of the general technique. The specific exploit you are referring to is usually called "trick shots." Some people call it cheating, most people think it should be either taken out or made obvious so you don't have to do the calculations manually.

I've never heard advice to use this technique on Morgoth though, it's interesting that he is vulnerable to it because he bores through walls.

I've used it mainly on Morgoth. I don't like it and wish it were removed. I also think that you should be able to cast spells and shoot arrows at monsters that are pass-wall but still in the wall. After all, they can cast spells at you.

**PowerDiver** · December 17, 2009, 19:14

There is also a serious problem because of the movement algorithm.

Code:

@.....
*#....
.*....
..*...
...*..
....*.
.....P

I M starts at the P, he comes at you along the line defined by the *'s. I killed him without needing even !CCW in the last game I posted to the ladder. You can get the equivalent of this over and over if you phase in a destruction zone.

Actually, I am not sure this is the right diagram. Maybe it needs to be set up so he comes around the other side of the wall. I didn't plan it, it just happened, over and over after I moved to make sure he couldn't use LOS abuse against me.

**Derakon** · December 17, 2009, 19:31

I once killed the Serpent of Chaos in ZAngband using this technique and a mindcrafter. Dimension Door (a.k.a. targeted teleport) combined with "hit all enemies in LOS" spells and a recover-MP spell make it very straightforward, even though the mindcrafter's damage tops out at 200 per shot. I think by the time I was done the Serpent had carved out an open section of dungeon about half the size of a greater vault, and hadn't gotten a single turn in which he could do anything except move. Very cheap.

One straightforward fix for this is to make Morgoth move slightly erratically. The tradeoff is that he's not as consistent in melee, but honestly I think that such a change would still make him significantly harder; if he moves out of melee range, after all, then you'd have to chase him and probably suffer a round of unanswered melee attacks. In the context of LOS tricks, Morgoth will tend to either move to where you both can see each other, or move to where neither of you can see the other; either way the problem is solved.

Slightly more complex fixes would involve switching to symmetric LOS, or teaching caster monsters to try to move to be in LOS of their targets.

Sauron is down, what's the plan now?

Sauron is down, what's the plan now?

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