Randarts now have random activations in trunk

[Psi]

Ok. The messed-up Grond is very bad news: we thought this was http://trac.rephial.org/ticket/641 fixed ages ago. Certainly you are the only person that's reported it for a long time, so it's an intermittent bug at best. Can you post the save file? Not sure how to track this down.

I've since retired, but not started a new game - is that still good to you? If so, where do you want it posting?

[PowerDiver]

Your first point comes back to your long-standing objection to rating object power. I believe that max depths for weak randarts are fine - analogous to those for standarts.

The problem is that I don't trust that we even agree on what weak standarts are. For the purposes of DL90, which is what max limits should be about, Sting is weak, but Paurhach and Pauragean are strong. I mean that in the sense that I never use Sting at that depth, but I have used each of those two Paurs multiple times in the past year.

I guess I'll have to add an artifact rarity hack to my buyout button patch.

[Marble Dice]

I would agree there is basically no depth I would "not want to be bothered" by finding an artifact (standard or random), no matter how weak it might be. At the very least it's a break from the monotony of tossing away another ego with a crappy high resist. I also enjoy the expanding list of "artifacts seen" in the knowledge menu. And since they don't come back, if it really is just trash, I'll see the name once and forget about it on the dungeon floor.

Items with a slot-specific rarities do pop up. Paurhach is a good example, as they are weak gloves with regen, and I frequently end up using them for long periods of time. Even if there is some competition for a weak, niche artifact, if the player hasn't found that competition, the weak item could still see use.

I assume max depths are in the game to prevent TMJ and finding the same artifacts every game? The latter justification at least wouldn't apply to a randart game.

[Magnate]

I've since retired, but not started a new game - is that still good to you? If so, where do you want it posting?

Not sure. If you could attach it to that trac ticket, that might help. Thanks.

[Magnate]

I assume max depths are in the game to prevent TMJ and finding the same artifacts every game? The latter justification at least wouldn't apply to a randart game.

It's basically just about TMJ - max depths were introduced so that the lower levels don't get cluttered with junk that's only useful early.

I think I am persuaded by the two of you that max depths should not be imposed on randarts. I'm going offline for a couple of days (moving house) but I'll sort that out when I'm back.

[Psi]

Not sure. If you could attach it to that trac ticket, that might help. Thanks.

I tried. However after I select the file it just takes me to a blank page. If that is intentional then I may have attached it several times...

[Magnate]

I tried. However after I select the file it just takes me to a blank page. If that is intentional then I may have attached it several times...

No problem. Try posting it here instead.

[Psi]

No problem. Try posting it here instead.

Here you go.

[Magnate]

Here you go.

Ok, got it. You're right about there being a problem with attaching things to trac.

[Psi]

Sadly I never found this randart before I died (Time hounds in dark room - instakilled after detecting monsters), but apart from being absolutely awesome, there must be an issue with the recharge time on that activation...

The Heavy Crossbow 'Gelin' (x5) (+18,+23)
-----------------------------------------
+1 speed, shooting power.
Branded with acid.
Provides resistance to poison, disenchantment.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Speeds regeneration.

When activated, it restores 5000 hit points, restores experience and stats,
2 turns to recharge.

[Magnate]

Sadly I never found this randart before I died (Time hounds in dark room - instakilled after detecting monsters), but apart from being absolutely awesome, there must be an issue with the recharge time on that activation...

The Heavy Crossbow 'Gelin' (x5) (+18,+23)
-----------------------------------------
+1 speed, shooting power.
Branded with acid.
Provides resistance to poison, disenchantment.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Speeds regeneration.

When activated, it restores 5000 hit points, restores experience and stats,
2 turns to recharge.

There most certainly is - thanks for the tip. Not quite sure how that's crept in.

[PowerDiver]

There most certainly is - thanks for the tip. Not quite sure how that's crept in.

Perhaps you did some multiplies to get a large [possibly intermediate] value that overflowed some variable?

[Magnate]

Perhaps you did some multiplies to get a large [possibly intermediate] value that overflowed some variable?

Well, the recharge time has the formula P^2 + PdP, where P is effect_power. The power of the 5000-point cure (which has the rather splendid name CURE_NONORLYBIG) is 24, so its recharge time should be 484 + 24d24, which should come out as "recharges in 508 to 968 turns". Shouldn't overflow anything, AFAICT - all of base time, dice and sides are ints.

I blame Marble Dice - this has only started since he created random_value ...!

There is one other possibility, which is that Psi's build is unclean. The activation message should read "restores 5000 hit points, restores experience and stats, heals cut damage, and cures stunning, poison, blindness, and confusion", but it seems to be truncated in his dump.

[Marble Dice]

Well, the recharge time has the formula P^2 + PdP, where P is effect_power. The power of the 5000-point cure (which has the rather splendid name CURE_NONORLYBIG) is 24, so its recharge time should be 484 + 24d24, which should come out as "recharges in 508 to 968 turns". Shouldn't overflow anything, AFAICT - all of base time, dice and sides are ints.

I blame Marble Dice - this has only started since he created random_value ...!

There is one other possibility, which is that Psi's build is unclean. The activation message should read "restores 5000 hit points, restores experience and stats, heals cut damage, and cures stunning, poison, blindness, and confusion", but it seems to be truncated in his dump.

Come on now, I did warn you I didn't know what I was doing in there!

However, running a few test randart games, sometimes my effects come up with the right amount of timeout, and sometimes it's drastically lower. Recently I had a game where two artifacts had activation effect 15 (EF_CURE_SERIOUS), and one had the right timeout (110-200), while one had the wrong timeout (4-6). Referring the to randart.log, I see only one instance of "Adding activation effect 15" and that corresponds to the artifact with the correct recharge time.

Is it possible recharge times / activation effects aren't being adequately cleared for artifacts that aren't supposed to have them, and data from the standart set or previous randart games is creeping in?

[Magnate]

Come on now, I did warn you I didn't know what I was doing in there!

You did indeed - I was just kidding, I can't see how it can possibly be your fault.

However, running a few test randart games, sometimes my effects come up with the right amount of timeout, and sometimes it's drastically lower. Recently I had a game where two artifacts had activation effect 15 (EF_CURE_SERIOUS), and one had the right timeout (110-200), while one had the wrong timeout (4-6). Referring the to randart.log, I see only one instance of "Adding activation effect 15" and that corresponds to the artifact with the correct recharge time.

Is it possible recharge times / activation effects aren't being adequately cleared for artifacts that aren't supposed to have them, and data from the standart set or previous randart games is creeping in?

Hmmm. Looks like I will have to zero effects to make sure. Possibly not the ideal solution, but might solve the problem.