Randarts now have random activations in trunk

[Magnate]

Isn't that still a lot longer than say, the palantir, takes to recharge?

Yes. This is why the light source activations have been left untouched - the randart activations are not supposed to compete with them. You need to see the light sources as extra-fast recharge times, not the norm. Enlightenment/clairvoyance are no more powerful effects than, say, the 1000-point heal, but if that had the same recharge time it would be too much. So actually the recharge times of enlight/clairv need to be extended. I coded an exception for the light sources to avoid howls of outrage (and because random activations on light sources would probably not be very helpful).

[Psi]

I coded an exception for the light sources to avoid howls of outrage (and because random activations on light sources would probably not be very helpful).

Oh ok. Didn't realise that the light sources were exceptions to recharge as well. Thanks.

[Magnate]

Oh ok. Didn't realise that the light sources were exceptions to recharge as well. Thanks.

No worries. In r1826 I toned down the power of non-stat-related high level activations, so their recharge times are slightly shorter. I also implemented a 50-200% limit on the relationship between activation power (as a proportion of max) to artifact power (ditto). So we should no longer see weak activations on high-end randarts. Thanks for the idea.

[Psi]

Cool. Thanks for that.

One other question. Artifacts seem a lot rarer in the nightlies than the 3.1.1 release. Is that an intentional change or have I been unlucky?

I've not seen a single pair of randart boots or gloves yet and only one cloak (I've been hovering around DL97-99 for a while now).

I've noticed min depth and max depth settings in the artifact spoilers. Can a situation arise when all the randart gloves for example have a max depth shallower than your current depth, so you won't actually find any?

[Magnate]

Cool. Thanks for that.

One other question. Artifacts seem a lot rarer in the nightlies than the 3.1.1 release. Is that an intentional change or have I been unlucky?

I've not seen a single pair of randart boots or gloves yet and only one cloak (I've been hovering around DL97-99 for a while now).

I've noticed min depth and max depth settings in the artifact spoilers. Can a situation arise when all the randart gloves for example have a max depth shallower than your current depth, so you won't actually find any?

Oooh, interesting. No change has been made to item generation in general, so it's definitely related to the changes I made moving artifacts to the alloc_prob system (including min and max depths). The basic answer to your question is yes: it is possible that all the randart boots (or gloves, or whatever) have max depths below 97. But this basically means that they're all pants, as max depth is proportional to power. So you're not missing much.

Judging from the spoilers I've generated the new depths and rarities are not dramatically different from the old, so I wouldn't expect to see many fewer randarts over a large enough number of games. In fact the distribution is now smoother, so you should find artifacts steadily as you descend rather than only one or two in the first half of the dungeon. Did you dive really really fast?

It's possible that you are having an unlucky game, but we'll have to gather feedback over quite a few games and see. Thanks for the heads-up - I'll keep a look out for similar observations.

[TJS]

The changes to randarts sound great, I'm looking forward to trying them out in my next game.

By the way, if equipment gives bonuses to different stats, do they all have to be the same value currently?
eg. +3 to speed, constitution, strength etc.

It would be good if you could have equipment that could give different values to different stats (and would probably make artifacts easier to balance).

[Marble Dice]

By the way, if equipment gives bonuses to different stats, do they all have to be the same value currently?
eg. +3 to speed, constitution, strength etc.

Correct, currently all bonuses must be the same, except that to-hit, to-dam, and to-armor all have their own, independent values. Blows, shots, shooting power, stats, speed, and skills can only be modified by an item's pval, and an item can only have one pval.

There's a ticket for multiple pvals though http://trac.rephial.org/ticket/571

[nppangband]

I am looking forward to seeing how this goes and what you come up with. When I re-did the randart code in NPP I could not think of a good and fair way to give artifacts a random activation.

[Magnate]

I am looking forward to seeing how this goes and what you come up with. When I re-did the randart code in NPP I could not think of a good and fair way to give artifacts a random activation.

Well, I was quite happy with the totally random activations that I introduced in http://trac.rephial.org/changeset/1699, until it was pointed out that a ring of power activating for 4d8 heal is a bit crap. So in http://trac.rephial.org/changeset/1826 I went for a straightforward proportional relationship. I can't think of anything more sophisticated without adding more cruft to list-effects.h for categorisation. Themed randarts are a far future project.

Must have another look at NPP sometime - I've not played since 0.4.1 ...

[fizzix]

Themed randarts are a far future project.

Amazingly...I thought about this a bit, and just from a cosmetic standpoint, so it's pointless to implement except for flavor. You would have a list of random descriptive sentences, and you'd apply one or two to each artifact upon creation depending on its properties.

sword + slay dragon = 'serpents entwine its hilt'
rblind + see invis = 'A sapphire shaped like an eye adorns it'

Of course they don't have to be as lame as my examples...

[Marble Dice]

Amazingly...I thought about this a bit, and just from a cosmetic standpoint, so it's pointless to implement except for flavor. You would have a list of random descriptive sentences, and you'd apply one or two to each artifact upon creation depending on its properties.

sword + slay dragon = 'serpents entwine its hilt'
rblind + see invis = 'A sapphire shaped like an eye adorns it'

Of course they don't have to be as lame as my examples...

The sword is made of copper and adamantite. It has images of petty dwarves and demons. The petty dwarves are being struck down by the demons. The demons are laughing. It manaces with spikes of mithril.

[Psi]

Judging from the spoilers I've generated the new depths and rarities are not dramatically different from the old, so I wouldn't expect to see many fewer randarts over a large enough number of games. In fact the distribution is now smoother, so you should find artifacts steadily as you descend rather than only one or two in the first half of the dungeon. Did you dive really really fast?

The game is here. I guess you'd call it a dive, but it is not Eddie-speed. I don't recall seeing many bad randarts - certainly not lately. I am still wearing the first helm and armour I found.

[Nightmarjoo]

Well, I was quite happy with the totally random activations that I introduced in http://trac.rephial.org/changeset/1699, until it was pointed out that a ring of power activating for 4d8 heal is a bit crap. So in http://trac.rephial.org/changeset/1826 I went for a straightforward proportional relationship. I can't think of anything more sophisticated without adding more cruft to list-effects.h for categorisation. Themed randarts are a far future project.

Must have another look at NPP sometime - I've not played since 0.4.1 ...

lol if my ring of power has two immunities, it can activate for aggravate monster for all I care. btw, are bad activations possible? Be funny to activate your newly discovered randart "it can be activated..." and it permamently drains your stats or something

[Magnate]

lol if my ring of power has two immunities, it can activate for aggravate monster for all I care. btw, are bad activations possible? Be funny to activate your newly discovered randart "it can be activated..." and it permamently drains your stats or something

No - randarts cannot have bad activations. I didn't think there'd be much interest in that.

[Magnate]

The game is here. I guess you'd call it a dive, but it is not Eddie-speed. I don't recall seeing many bad randarts - certainly not lately. I am still wearing the first helm and armour I found.

Well, you are wearing 9 randarts, carrying 2 more as swaps and keeping 7 at home. They are all pretty good (the broadsword is superb, as is your current shield). Admittedly you've found no gloves or boots, but there's certainly no overall shortage. There could be as few as four of each, so you're looking for 8 out of 135. If you want to send me the savefile I'll generate the spoiler and double check that all is in order. It's possible that all 8 have max depths shallower than 99, but unlikely.