Your views wanted on artifacts in V

[Magnate]

That's non-random artifacts, i.e. the ones in artifact.txt

It's widely agreed that lots of them are junk - when was the last time you played a character that actually used Elvagil, even for half a level?

So, I'm on a mission to rescue as many of these unused artifacts as possible, and delete the unsaved.

I'm not looking to do anything unbalancing, and in particular I want to avoid turning a piece of junk into a gem of Thorin proportions. I'm really looking just to do one or two of the following tweaks:

- adjust depth and rarity so that it appears early enough to be useful, even briefly (I'm expecting this to be the solution in most cases)

- add or swap a single ability that turns it from "worse than an ego that I usually have by then" to useful, even briefly

- maybe tweak a pval or +hit/dam/ac along the same lines

So, if that's all clear, let me have your views: which are these junk artifacts, and what would make them useful to you?

I don't mind hearing views on aggravators, but let's not waste time trying to rescue Mormegil or Camlost.

[buzzkill]

There are a couple of pairs of (early artifact) similar sounding gauntlets/gloves that are never useful by the time that I find them. I'd make them appear earlier, and so they don't constantly displace normal gear, a little rarer maybe.

[Magnate]

There are a couple of pairs of (early artifact) similar sounding gauntlets/gloves that are never useful by the time that I find them. I'd make them appear earlier, and so they don't constantly displace normal gear, a little rarer maybe.

You're talking about Paurhach, Pauregen and the others, collectively known as Paur*. Yes, these are top of the list to be saved, along with the 'thancs. They would be quite good if you found them before dl20.

[Atarlost]

More reliable and frequent activation would help those. Currently the activations aren't anything you can rely on and are therefore useless and useless is uninteresting. I'd say any artifact activation that isn't useful in its current state needs to be improved or removed. Just doing that will do more to help stuff like the *thanc, Paur*, and Firestar than level or rarity adjustment or tweaking flags or pvals.

[Estie]

Carlammas: increase pval to 4
Ingwe: add res confusion
Dwarves: up depth to 50

Razorback: remove aggravation
Mediator: remove aggravation
Belegennon: apply pval to dex
Hammerhand: remove aggravation
"Paur"-gloves: add weapon branding property, remove activation, increase depth to 30 and rarity to 5

Zarcuthra: remove aggravation
Elvagil: reduce weight to 80
Doomcaller: remove aggravation
Osondir: reduce weight to 140
Lotharang: increase base damage to 3d8
Avavir: reduce weight to 150
Firestar: increase base damage to 3d6
Turmil: add slay_evil

Umbar: remove aggravation
Haradrim: remove aggravation

[Magnate]

More reliable and frequent activation would help those. Currently the activations aren't anything you can rely on and are therefore useless and useless is uninteresting. I'd say any artifact activation that isn't useful in its current state needs to be improved or removed. Just doing that will do more to help stuff like the *thanc, Paur*, and Firestar than level or rarity adjustment or tweaking flags or pvals.

I can certainly change the recharge times, but sadly the reliability is an issue of magic device skill, which is a separate piece of work. (I am actually in the middle of that, taking a breather before moving to a quadratic formula - but in any event that won't suddenly make the activations easier.)

AFAIK activation is tied to depth, so if I make them shallower that should make the activation easier.

[Djabanete]

Carlammas: increase pval to 4
Ingwe: add res confusion
Dwarves: up depth to 50

Razorback: remove aggravation
Mediator: remove aggravation
Belegennon: apply pval to dex
Hammerhand: remove aggravation
"Paur"-gloves: add weapon branding property, remove activation, increase depth to 30 and rarity to 5

Zarcuthra: remove aggravation
Elvagil: reduce weight to 80
Doomcaller: remove aggravation
Osondir: reduce weight to 140
Lotharang: increase base damage to 3d8
Avavir: reduce weight to 150
Firestar: increase base damage to 3d6
Turmil: add slay_evil

Umbar: remove aggravation
Haradrim: remove aggravation

I haven't played Vanilla in a while, but based on my recollections, I think these are extremely sensible recommendations.

[Magnate]

Razorback: remove aggravation
Mediator: remove aggravation
Hammerhand: remove aggravation
Zarcuthra: remove aggravation
Doomcaller: remove aggravation
Umbar: remove aggravation
Haradrim: remove aggravation

Uh ... thanks. No go on most of those. Possibly the two DSMs, as they are less useful than standard MH or Balance DSMs with aggravation - but removing aggravation is beyond the small tweaks I was talking about.

I liked a lot of your other suggestions though - thanks.

[Estie]

I don't mind hearing views on aggravators, but let's not waste time trying to rescue Mormegil or Camlost.

Well, I took that literally.

[PowerDiver]

These artifacts are junk and should be removed.

Evenstar
Razorback
Hithlomir
Celegorm
Beruthiel
Hammerhand
Gorlim
Eol
Cammithrim
Camlost
Mormegil
Gondricam
Elvagil
Melkor
Osondir
Til-i-arc
Lotharang
Avavir
Firestar
Nar-i-vagil

I'm sure I missed a few, but that's a start.

For some others, you could put a maximum depth on them. The thancs are great early, but perhaps not interesting below 3000'.

[edit] I wonder if something similar to the relation (base damage < weight/2) implies that brands and slays are essentially wasted. The only way a scythe is interesting is if you toss lots of defense, like defender + stat bonuses. You're going to use something else if you want to deal melee damage.

[Magnate]

Well, I took that literally.

Sure. I kind of assumed "remove aggravation" as the norm, so I was really looking for views on what could be done with them other than removing aggravation.

[Magnate]

These artifacts are junk and should be removed.

Evenstar
Razorback
Hithlomir
Celegorm
Beruthiel
Hammerhand
Gorlim
Eol
Cammithrim
Camlost
Mormegil
Gondricam
Elvagil
Melkor
Osondir
Til-i-arc
Lotharang
Avavir
Firestar
Nar-i-vagil

I'm sure I missed a few, but that's a start.

For some others, you could put a maximum depth on them. The thancs are great early, but perhaps not interesting below 3000'.

I don't know that it's possible to put a max depth on artifacts - they don't use the same alloc_prob as base items (I could make them do so, but that's for another patch).

I have personally used all of Gondricam, Hithlomir and Cammithrim so I don't quite agree with your list, but it's welcome anyway.

[Tatami]

I think at least removing aggravate from the artifact dsm would be sweet as seeing they are so rare. When you manage to find one it would actually be useful to any stealthy @.

[takkaria]

I don't know that it's possible to put a max depth on artifacts - they don't use the same alloc_prob as base items (I could make them do so, but that's for another patch).

I have personally used all of Gondricam, Hithlomir and Cammithrim so I don't quite agree with your list, but it's welcome anyway.

Feel free to file a bug for that. I need to rework the object distribution system again anyway for 3.1.2...

[PowerDiver]

I have personally used all of Gondricam, Hithlomir and Cammithrim so I don't quite agree with your list, but it's welcome anyway.

Sure, I have used Hithlomir, but given the opportunity to trade it for a random ego I can hope would be elvenkind, I would jump at the chance. The way object generation works, an artifact name is essentially a superego that overwrites the random ego you would otherwise have gotten. Hithlomir is not good enough to me that I would prefer it to a lottery ticket for elvenkind with a more useful high resist.