Bug: new-style monster list does not correctly report line-of-sight

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  • zaimoni
    Knight
    • Apr 2007
    • 551

    #31
    Originally posted by Magnate
    Er, isn't making visual=targetable the same as making LOS symmetrical? I don't think I understand the difference.
    Zaiband's targetability is defined as "you can hit the square with a wand of light using positional targeting." Note that the ethereal PROJECT_JUMP flag has also been ditched, as the intended effect is on all the time. Also note that hockey-stick is gone in Zaiband; I changed mostly-diagonal projection to start out diagonally rather than orthogonally.

    To put things bluntly, I got tired of calculating trick shots by hand all of the time. Once trick shot calculation was automated for the easy cases, the resulting asymmetric visibility isn't as annoying (although it's still not realistic).

    Of course, this does cause a few problems:
    Code:
    ########
    D.xxxxx.
    ####@###
    @ cannot see D. He can see (and target) all of the x (if illuminated), as there exist easy-to-hand-calculate squares that, when targeted, a wand/rod of light can illuminate them from where @ is.

    D can target @ just fine -- placing @ at the center of its breath weapon.
    Zaiband: end the "I shouldn't have survived that" experience. V3.0.6 fork on Hg.
    Zaiband 3.0.10 ETA Mar. 7 2011 (Yes, schedule slipped. Latest testing indicates not enough assert() calls to allow release.)
    Z.C++: pre-alpha C/C++ compiler system (usable preprocessor). Also on Hg. Z.C++ 0.0.10 ETA December 31 2011

    Comment

    • zaimoni
      Knight
      • Apr 2007
      • 551

      #32
      Originally posted by Donald Jonker
      ...at least I'm pretty sure that monsters can't target in those circumstances. I'd have to play around with kobold archers to be sure. You can't fire at the snake in the following example.
      You can't fire at the snake directly. You can fire at the snake using positional targeting. This is much of how I get away with running around at Slow (-4) at DL 19 with a Death XBow wielding Priest.
      Originally posted by Donald Jonker
      I don't know if he'd be able to fire at you.
      No. The first step of the V projection path is into the wall, even if it could use positional targeting.
      Code:
      ####x##
      #######
      #######    
      #######
      ### J 
      ### ###
      ### # 
      ### ###
         @
      Positionally targeting either of the x squares will hit the snake with a bolt spell; since there is a wall immediately next in the path, the snake can also be ground zero of a ball spell. Of course, you actually have to be able to target the x (the outer permawall will break this in V).

      Rule of thumb: if you need something to travel n horizontally/vertically and then swerve 1, target 2n+1 away in that direction and then move the target 1 the way it should swerve. 2n often works, but hits corner cases in the projectability algorithm often enough that I can't recommend it.
      Zaiband: end the "I shouldn't have survived that" experience. V3.0.6 fork on Hg.
      Zaiband 3.0.10 ETA Mar. 7 2011 (Yes, schedule slipped. Latest testing indicates not enough assert() calls to allow release.)
      Z.C++: pre-alpha C/C++ compiler system (usable preprocessor). Also on Hg. Z.C++ 0.0.10 ETA December 31 2011

      Comment

      • buzzkill
        Prophet
        • May 2008
        • 2783

        #33
        FA shows the path the projectile will take as you are targeting, or trying to figure out your targeting. It makes tricky shots a lot easier.
        www.mediafire.com/buzzkill - Get your 32x32 tiles here. UT32 now compatible Ironband and Quickband 9/6/2012.
        My banding life on Buzzkill's ladder.

        Comment

        • Cauldron
          Apprentice
          • May 2009
          • 59

          #34
          Originally posted by buzzkill
          FA shows the path the projectile will take as you are targeting, or trying to figure out your targeting. It makes tricky shots a lot easier.
          Now this would be a nice plagiarize for vanilla. I humbly submit.
          I miss autoscum... but not that much.

          Comment

          • Nick
            Vanilla maintainer
            • Apr 2007
            • 9344

            #35
            Originally posted by Cauldron
            Now this would be a nice plagiarize for vanilla. I humbly submit.
            What goes around comes around - I stole it from NPP.
            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
            In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

            Comment

            • Rizwan
              Swordsman
              • Jun 2007
              • 280

              #36
              Originally posted by Magnate
              Er, isn't making visual=targetable the same as making LOS symmetrical? I don't think I understand the difference.
              Correct me if I am wrong but I think visible != targetable. For instance you can see a monster 150 feet away but you can only shoot 120 feet. Whereas making LOS symmetrical would mean if you can see it then it can see you. Correct?

              Comment

              • jv123
                Scout
                • May 2009
                • 37

                #37
                Magnate, still a problem with r1443 I'm afraid. At the moment a few weird things are happening:
                1. Monsters that are targetable are sometimes not listed as visible
                2. If I quit and re-open, without moving, the monster is then correctly listed as visible
                3. If I immediately move out of sight of the monster, the monster is still listed as visible; after a few turns it corrects itself.
                We're getting there!!

                Comment

                • Nick
                  Vanilla maintainer
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 9344

                  #38
                  Originally posted by jv123
                  Magnate, still a problem with r1443 I'm afraid. At the moment a few weird things are happening:
                  1. Monsters that are targetable are sometimes not listed as visible
                  2. If I quit and re-open, without moving, the monster is then correctly listed as visible
                  3. If I immediately move out of sight of the monster, the monster is still listed as visible; after a few turns it corrects itself.
                  We're getting there!!
                  If this is happening in a subwindow, it sounds to me like the problem is the subwindow not updating frequently enough.
                  One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                  In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                  Comment

                  • Magnate
                    Angband Devteam member
                    • May 2007
                    • 4916

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Nick
                    If this is happening in a subwindow, it sounds to me like the problem is the subwindow not updating frequently enough.
                    Agreed. This shouldn't be too hard to fix.
                    "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                    Comment

                    • jv123
                      Scout
                      • May 2009
                      • 37

                      #40
                      Any luck with this yet, Magnate? It's so close to being perfect!

                      Comment

                      • Magnate
                        Angband Devteam member
                        • May 2007
                        • 4916

                        #41
                        Originally posted by jv123
                        Any luck with this yet, Magnate? It's so close to being perfect!
                        Try r1451 and let me know if there are any remaining failures to update the subwindow. If there are, try and note down exactly what you did (or what happened) when it should have updated and didn't.
                        "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                        Comment

                        • jv123
                          Scout
                          • May 2009
                          • 37

                          #42
                          Here's another little bug. Try the attached savefile: walk towards the dragon, and you're only "aware" of it. Once you can actually see it, walk back to a square where previously you were only aware of it --- you can still see it! Walk away until it's not displayed on the map, then walk towards it again; then you're only aware of it once more.

                          I noticed a few other bugs: a ghost (I have see invisible) entered a section of wall diagonally adjacent to me, but it wasn't classed as visible. Also, I entered a corridor containing a hound, and the hound immediately breathed on me (not sure if this is relevant); the hound was then targetable, but not listed as visible on the monster list.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • Magnate
                            Angband Devteam member
                            • May 2007
                            • 4916

                            #43
                            Originally posted by jv123
                            Here's another little bug. Try the attached savefile: walk towards the dragon, and you're only "aware" of it. Once you can actually see it, walk back to a square where previously you were only aware of it --- you can still see it! Walk away until it's not displayed on the map, then walk towards it again; then you're only aware of it once more.

                            I noticed a few other bugs: a ghost (I have see invisible) entered a section of wall diagonally adjacent to me, but it wasn't classed as visible. Also, I entered a corridor containing a hound, and the hound immediately breathed on me (not sure if this is relevant); the hound was then targetable, but not listed as visible on the monster list.
                            Ok, easy one first: the ghost one is not a bug. We're using "projectable" as visible, and you can't hit monsters in walls with projectiles, so they don't count as truly "visible" in this context. Sorry if that sounds clunky but it's the best we've got at the moment (see the ongoing LOS debate for the future).

                            The others are both worrying. The hound should definitely have been listed as visible, because it's projectable, and the dragon is exactly the problem I hoped r1451 would solve. I haven't tested the savefile yet but I can only assume that the dragon is in some bizarre position that although you can see it you can't actually project to it. Same for the hound.

                            Hmmm. Maybe not. Maybe the problem is the difference between "easily visible" and projectable. I'll study the savefile and have a closer look at the code.

                            Thanks for the report.
                            "Been away so long I hardly knew the place, gee it's good to be back home" - The Beatles

                            Comment

                            • jv123
                              Scout
                              • May 2009
                              • 37

                              #44
                              OK, fair enough about the ghost.

                              In r1452, in the situation in the savefile, whether or not the dragon is "seen" is NOT a function of whether it can be targeted. So, something definitely needs fixing there.

                              Comment

                              • Pete Mack
                                Prophet
                                • Apr 2007
                                • 6697

                                #45
                                If the 'G' can see you (and cast nether bolts at you), you should be able to see it!

                                Comment

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