Do we need points based stat generation at all?

[TJS]

Playing the new version of Angband I much prefer the new method of assigning points to the statistics than the old semi-random method where you just kept rolling until you got what you wanted anyway, but it got me thinking, do we need the user to be able to choose any of these stats at all?

It is quite bewildering to the new player which stats should be boosted. I've been playing for a few years now and I'm still unsure of which stats should be maximised and exactly what the real difference in game is between say a strength of 18/20 and one of 18/30 for a half-troll warrior.

How's about having the starting stats determined entirely by class and race bonuses/penalties?

Racial differences will become more prominent and it might actually be worth trying a half-elf once every so often to get an extra point of intelligence (or whatever).

[Donald Jonker]

Stat distribution adds to the customizability and therefore replayability of each race/class combo. Don't think you'd want to give that up. Making it more accessible to the new user could be accomplished by including optimized savefiles in bundled zipfile, or including recommendations in the online help.

[buzzkill]

I prefer the single roll method. Give me a pathetic character (almost) every time.

[Zikke]

In the tradition of D&D, having multiple sanctioned ways to generate a character is part of the fun.

[PaulBlay]

One simple approach would be to have "standard" point distributions for every race/class combination and allow re-distribution from that start point.

There would be no game-play impact because it just starts off as if you'd spent the points in one way, nothing to stop you 'unspending' them and using your points elsewhere.

[PowerDiver]

[QUOTE=PaulBlay;17572]One simple approach would be to have "standard" point distributions for every race/class combination and allow re-distribution from that start point.QUOTE]

There are too many combos for a table, so we need a simple algorithm. Here's a possible approach.

buy base STR 17

if possible buy adj DEX of 18/10

spend up to half remaining points on each of spell-stat and con, but only up to max base of 16 unless a pure class [mage or priest or warrior]

If there are any points left, spend as much as possible in order on DEX, non-spell-stat, CHR.

[Bandobras]

and exactly what the real difference in game is between say a strength of 18/20 and one of 18/30 for a half-troll warrior.

Haven't you read the official V spoilers? It's all in there, you don't even have to code-dive. And that part of the spoilers do not spoil the fun, at least for me.

[TJS]

Stat distribution adds to the customizability and therefore replayability of each race/class combo. Don't think you'd want to give that up. Making it more accessible to the new user could be accomplished by including optimized savefiles in bundled zipfile, or including recommendations in the online help.

It would add to the customisation of characters, but I get the impression that more experienced players stick to a simple formula when choosing characters. I guess it is good to have the option there if you want it.

One simple approach would be to have "standard" point distributions for every race/class combination and allow re-distribution from that start point.

I like this idea. It would save me a lot of wondering if I've made a daft choice when I pick a character combo that I wouldn't normally choose.

There are too many combos for a table, so we need a simple algorithm. Here's a possible approach.

buy base STR 17

if possible buy adj DEX of 18/10

spend up to half remaining points on each of spell-stat and con, but only up to max base of 16 unless a pure class [mage or priest or warrior]

If there are any points left, spend as much as possible in order on DEX, non-spell-stat, CHR.

Thanks that's very handy, I think I'll use that. It does make me think though that if you do that everytime you could be in danger of ending up with similar characters when you play.

I like the idea of having racial level bonuses as well as class bonuses and having every class able to use both branches of magic, but with appropriate bonuses/penalties depending on the class. This way you could make some new interesting choices at the start of the game, such as having a gnome warrior which could become a decent spellcaster later on.

[buzzkill]

Why all the discussion? Just let players use whatever they want for their stats. If someone wants to start out with all stats maxed out, let them. What's the difference? Just have the RNG roll some numbers (or not) and let the player alter them in any way he/she sees fit.

[PowerDiver]

Why all the discussion? Just let players use whatever they want for their stats.

The problem is, what about people who do not yet know that raising your dex from 12 to 18 has no discernible effect, but raising it from 18 to 18/10 is game-changing? When you make the rules artificial and non-intuitive, you have an obligation to do something to help a novice to start with a more playable char.

[bebo]

The problem is, what about people who do not yet know that raising your dex from 12 to 18 has no discernible effect, but raising it from 18 to 18/10 is game-changing?

Count me among these - what's the difference?

Plus i must say I never have been able to figure exactly the impact of STR and DEX (plus weapon weight) on number of blows, it's always been a process of trial and error in my case - possibly a detailed table in a spoiler file might be enough to provide the required info

[Magnate]

Count me among these - what's the difference?

Plus i must say I never have been able to figure exactly the impact of STR and DEX (plus weapon weight) on number of blows, it's always been a process of trial and error in my case - possibly a detailed table in a spoiler file might be enough to provide the required info

Or you can just look in tables.c

DEX determines which column is used in the "blows table". Columns are for DEX 10, 18/10, 18/50, 18/70, 18/90 and every /10 after that (to 18/150 max).

DEX also affects things like +hit, +AC, disarming traps and avoiding thievery - but the big difference is that many characters will get an extra blow with many weapons at 18/10 DEX. Exactly how many blows is a function of STR, class and weapon weight. It's non-trivial.

[Nick]

DEX determines which column is used in the "blows table". Columns are for DEX 10, 18/10, 18/50, 18/70, 18/90 and every /10 after that (to 18/150 max).

Can anyone tell me how the blows table was arrived at? I've had a quick go at reverse engineering it, but I think it may be more efficient to ask someone who (a) actually knows and (b) is not in my current pre-coffee fog.

[Jungle_Boy]

http://www.juti.nl/hugo/Angband/Spoiler/attack.spo

The site also has some other useful spoilers

[Nick]

http://www.juti.nl/hugo/Angband/Spoiler/attack.spo

The site also has some other useful spoilers

Thanks, but I was after how the blows table was constructed. I'm guessing it's an approximation to some function of strength/weight and dex, and I was hoping that someone else does know.