We need more people.

[PaulBlay]

The 'n' is not without problems of its own. If you are using pack items [ammo, wands, etc] and a slot goes away without your noticing it ...

That's where inscribe @1 and such come in.

[PowerDiver]

That's where inscribe @1 and such come in.

If you 'f' '1' and then 'n', the 'n' ignores the '1' and instead uses the slot index, so @1 does not help here one iota.

[Dragonboneman]

inscribing all my escape methods {*!}

Another "n" enthusiast here. It's simpler than macros and very useful, so long as you take this sort of precaution.

[darkdrone]

guess not enough people can face life without the "REALISM" of games like WoW (which i admit i havent played, Warcraft II being the last of the franchise i liked).

*Bands are a niche game ... and its greatly due to the numerous variants out there that the value of *band actually is so high.

lets face it , we probably wont find gamers of *band in the tens of thousands like WoW or Team Fortress has , anytime soon

[hillsc]

There are definitely workarounds for these types of things (not the least of which is something I call "paying attention"--which might have helped me in this situation), but the main point still stands: this type of game is inherently dangerous. The original reply mentioned something about 'bands and RLs requiring a lot of patience, not something you'll typically find in the general population. That is very true.

I really like playing, and like I said, I don't mind cheating death at all, so no harm done, outside of the lost loot. But in the context of "why aren't we more popular?" this is another aspect of it.

I like the 'abort on fail' approach, but I've also run into this problem hammering on monsters. If I'm down the hall, like so...

#@######
...d.ddd
########

...killing dragons as they step into range, and I'm in mental "rapid fire" mode, the instant one of them pauses and doesn't step into range, I step out into the hall instead. Ouch! No macro here, and same YASD scenario.

My fault? Of course. But my guess is a lot of new players find the punishment for tiny, tiny slip ups waaay out of line. ("Oh, you accidentally stepped into the hall when you didn't mean to? Too bad. We're throwing away the 200 hours you put into this. The good news is, you get to start all over.")

[PaulBlay]

I like the 'abort on fail' approach, but I've also run into this problem hammering on monsters. If I'm down the hall, like so...

#@######
...d.ddd
########

...killing dragons as they step into range, and I'm in mental "rapid fire" mode, the instant one of them pauses and doesn't step into range, I step out into the hall instead. Ouch! No macro here, and same YASD scenario.

You could macro (or keymap) +2 (alter-grid south) and lean on that key instead of walking into them. Of course you only think of things like that afterwards.

[Donald Jonker]

I like the 'abort on fail' approach, but I've also run into this problem hammering on monsters. If I'm down the hall, like so...

#@######
...d.ddd
########

This setup is asking for disaster, since that first dragon can breathe on you, but you can't target missiles at it. Arrange the situation rather in this way:

#@######
#.######
..dd.ddd
########

Move back a space. That way, the d can't breathe on you, and you can spam projectiles and spells until it moves closer and then you can melee (this is called the knight's move/hockey stick rule). Of course, this requires (alas!) targeting with *t.

...killing dragons as they step into range, and I'm in mental "rapid fire" mode, the instant one of them pauses and doesn't step into range, I step out into the hall instead. Ouch! No macro here, and same YASD scenario.

My fault? Of course. But my guess is a lot of new players find the punishment for tiny, tiny slip ups waaay out of line. ("Oh, you accidentally stepped into the hall when you didn't mean to? Too bad. We're throwing away the 200 hours you put into this. The good news is, you get to start all over.")

The resources are available to avoid all the problems you've described. I've personally (this morning) gotten YASD from attacking not mature dragons but Morgoth.. which you may imagine can be a bit disheartening as well. But the point is learning: ask not how the game can be adjusted to suit your play-style, but ask rather how your play-style can be adjusted to suit the game.

It isn't a mainstream game, and shouldn't be. Out of the popular roguelikes, Angband is arguably the toughest. But as far as this most recent discussion goes, I don't think there's anything that compelling that requires change.

edited the picture example for better clarity.

[Larvitz]

I never knew I would've created a monster when I started this thread. Kinda makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

In fact... the "We need more people" monster should be in 3.1.1.

[buzzkill]

Kinda makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

It sounds like the toast is almost done.

[Larvitz]

It sounds like the toast is almost done.

Touche.

[hillsc]

The resources are available to avoid all the problems you've described.
[snip]
But the point is learning: ask not how the game can be adjusted to suit your play-style, but ask rather how your play-style can be adjusted to suit the game.
[snip]
It isn't a mainstream game, and shouldn't be.

You summed it all up perfectly. And I hope it didn't look like I was complaining about the game mechanics. (I feel a little bad for posting the dragon scenario.) It's not that I was saying this was unfair or unplayable/unwinnable but that it was a simple & common example of why this game is not for everyone.

Today at lunch I walked into a room with a huge scary thing I'd never seen before. It took one breath and my HP went from 459 to -241. Is that the fault of the game? No. It's just another example of how this is the kind of game that teaches you to be careful. It's been described as hack-and-slash, but it's far from it.

It isn't a mainstream game, and shouldn't be.

I cheated, again, of course and came back to life with illegal wizard mode use. But that's my choice. I still avoid death if at all possible, I'm just not personally one to start over if (and when!) it does happen.

Cheers!