Odd Feature or Bug? Angband Vanilla 4.2.5

[Sparrow the Dunadan]

While playing a Hobbit Paladin lvl 26 (but I noticed it much earlier in the game), with cheats on, I've noticed that sometimes I use my rod of treasure location will say there's something nearby, but nothing shows on the map. However, I've found that there may be a monster carrying said something. Is this a feature, or a bug?

[backwardsEric]

It would be a bug rather than a feature. "Nearby" is a patch, 81 horizontal grids by 45 vertical grids, centered on your character. I suspect that what is happening is that an off-screen object is detected so you get the message but nothing new appears on the screen.

[PowerDiver]

Most likely it is detecting a squelched object.

[Nick]

Most likely it is detecting a squelched object.

If that's the case, it is a bug - these are meant to be detected, and then disappear when they come into sight.

[Pete Mack]

Nick--
There are no specs for wizard mode. So bug? Or feature?

[PowerDiver]

If that's the case, it is a bug - these are meant to be detected, and then disappear when they come into sight.

I think there's a bug, by that definition, where if you squelch average stuff, it is squelched for detection purposes.

On the other hand, detection does not show sticks and bones. What's the difference? An unenchanted spear is just another stick, to me, as far as detection is concerned, especially if you are squelching average.

I actually think the current situation is correct behavior. We're so far apart in our views on detection I haven't bothered to comment before.

[PowerWyrm]

It is just that the monster picked up that object no?

[Sparrow the Dunadan]

It is just that the monster picked up that object no?

Not sure that's the case. If it were... It would either show up in either map or look mode (because these don't cost a turn)- unless it's picked up at the same time/turn as the rod use?

What is happening is I use my rod. Then go to map and look modes to search for where it is (object or treasure). Nothing shows up, even though it says something is detected. I use detect evil, sometimes a monster will be detected (but non-evils won't), but regardless- if they are an item carrying monster, then the detected item (treasure or object) will be dropped upon kill. So I think it's detecting whatever the monster is carrying. At least that's what it seems from the few times it's happened, since it's always dropping what is being detected, but not found.

If it's bug then, I would say it needs to be turned into a feature, because that's kind of neat.

[backwardsEric]

If that's the case, it is a bug - these are meant to be detected, and then disappear when they come into sight.

If the player then uses something with SENSE_OBJECTS and that seen and ignored object is in range, it will trigger the "You sense the presence of objects." message which, when there's no other unseen or known but not ignored objects in range, would be a bug in my opinion.

[PowerDiver]

What is happening is I use my rod. Then go to map and look modes to search for where it is (object or treasure). Nothing shows up, even though it says something is detected.

The next time this happens, switch to unignoring state with 'K' and let us know whether you can find something on the map.

[PowerDiver]

I've had two related situations. Both a rogue casting m1c

(1) Got messages objects, no treasures. There was a treasure [not a mimic], but no objects [nothing squelched either] in range. There was a previously detected torch on the other side of the level, prob > 100 away.

(2) Got messages no objects or treasures, but there was a squelched staff of mapping in range 14N 8E.

[backwardsEric]

(1) Got messages objects, no treasures. There was a treasure [not a mimic], but no objects [nothing squelched either] in range. There was a previously detected torch on the other side of the level, prob > 100 away.

(2) Got messages no objects or treasures, but there was a squelched staff of mapping in range 14N 8E.

Gold on the floor counts as an "object"; that explains (1). For (2), that is expected because the rogue's spell use object "detection" rather than the object "sensing" that the rod of treasure location uses was this with 4.2.5 or with a build from 4.2.5-55-gccbcb8b84 on? 4.2.5 should have given the "You sense the presence of objects." message for (2). Builds from 4.2.5-55-gccbcb8b84 on should only give that message for (2) if the staff had not been previously seen.

[Pete Mack]

Gold on the floor is usually white. Eddie is pointing out that squelched objects should show as red until seen. But If he is already aware of the squelched object, then it should not show up at all.

[PowerDiver]

Gold on the floor counts as an "object"; that explains (1).

If you think gold on the floor is an object and not a treasure, that's yet another bug. It certainly didn't show up in the object list. If it is an object, you need to include it in the object list.

If money only counts in a vein, say instead: You detect no treasure veins.

Keep in mind even the fuzzy detection differentiates between money on the floor and objects on the floor. If floor money is as much an object as non-money, that needs to change too.

[backwardsEric]

Eddie is pointing out that squelched objects should show as red until seen. But If he is already aware of the squelched object, then it should not show up at all.

A rogue's object detection spell counts as seeing, so the squelched object doesn't get the red asterisk for an unknown object.

If you think gold on the floor is an object and not a treasure, that's yet another bug. It certainly didn't show up in the object list. If it is an object, you need to include it in the object list.

If money only counts in a vein, say instead: You detect no treasure veins.

Keep in mind even the fuzzy detection differentiates between money on the floor and objects on the floor. If floor money is as much an object as non-money, that needs to change too.

Internally, money on the floor is represented with the same "struct object" that all other objects use. Of course, that's an internal detail, and gold could be differentiated from the other objects in what's presented to the player. You give the cases where that is done. I would guess most players find that differentiation convenient and would not want it to go away. The implementation of the detection effects and their messaging isn't fully consistent with the differentiation between gold and the other objects. DETECT_GOLD only detects treasure veins. SENSE_OBJECTS or DETECT_OBJECTS detect both gold on the floor and other objects. In Vanilla, those effects are usually paired together (the exception is the dwarves' innate SEE_ORE ability which only uses DETECT_GOLD) so what happens where isn't seen by the player except for the messaging. To be consistent with how gold and objects are treated elsewhere, there could be four effects: DETECT_ORE (only detects treasure veins; would be used to implement the dwarves' innate ability), DETECT_GOLD (detects both money on the floor and treasure veins with messaging that distinguishes between whether money and veins, money only, veins only, or neither were detected), and SENSE_OBJECTS/DETECT_OBJECTS which would detect all objects except for money on the floor.