An idea to alleviate Rangers LOS abuse

[wobbly]

(16) Rodent Skeletons

I have no idea what game we are playing anymore, but I wanted to play too.

[Pete Mack]

Fractional speed was never part of 3.0.

[Sideways]

Here's a V winner from 3.0.1: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=437

In their final kit, they have a total of +15 fractional speed from six items, including two (Elessar and Numenor) that didn't exist at all in 2.x and two (Colannon and Thror) that existed but lacked +speed. (The other two are Narya and Vilya, which did already give fractional speed in 2.x but lacked the damage bonuses seen in 3.0.)

[PowerDiver]

True, but only for the early game. There I leave levels with low item indication all the time. Later on, monsters and vault layouts are the predominant factor when deciding whether to stay or leave, same as it used to be.

I use the level feelings deep into the game. E.g. there is a pit you could clear but don't really want to, and there are multiple items on the floor in the pit. The object level feeling swings my decision. The same is true for vaults. There is an unaware amulet guarded by scary monsters. Is it adornment or an artifact? Often the level feeling lets you know.

[Ed_47569]

Here's a V winner from 3.0.1: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=437

In their final kit, they have a total of +15 fractional speed from six items, including two (Elessar and Numenor) that didn't exist at all in 2.x and two (Colannon and Thror) that existed but lacked +speed. (The other two are Narya and Vilya, which did already give fractional speed in 2.x but lacked the damage bonuses seen in 3.0.)

That's correct, although some small speed bonuses were later removed such as crowns of Numenor and Gondor. Think Colannon went from +3 to +2 speed only. I can remember a lot of debate on RGRA back in the early 2000's when V3.0 was released and many people complained it was too easy. Certainly the new amulets like Trickery and Weaponmastery made the later game easier, along with new egos like weapons of Gondolin, boots of Elvenkind etc.

Somewhere around V3.2.x the game became ridiculously easy, but I think 4.2 has improved the balance significantly. Many more dangerous monsters added and OOD monsters seem much more common. Overall the current game is quicker because of major UI improvements such as squleching and Rune based ID, but the actual difficulty is probably about right. My winners play through the current game much quicker than in say V3.0.5, but I probably lose the same ratio of characters in the current version as in the older versions.

[Pete Mack]

Sorry, I somehow understood this as fractional blows. I don't think I ever played a version without t fractional speed.

[Ed_47569]

Sorry, I somehow understood this as fractional blows. I don't think I ever played a version without t fractional speed.

Think fractional speed was introduced by Ben Harrison starting with 2.7.x.

[Estie]

I use the level feelings deep into the game. E.g. there is a pit you could clear but don't really want to, and there are multiple items on the floor in the pit. The object level feeling swings my decision. The same is true for vaults. There is an unaware amulet guarded by scary monsters. Is it adornment or an artifact? Often the level feeling lets you know.

Late in the game, the item feeling might be something like 5-7. You are going to find _something_ in that pit, but is is as likely to be only junk egos as it is to be a valuable artifact. Junk, of course, being relative.
For me, other considerations are far more important than ilvl feeling at this point. For example, if it is a pit of mostly 1 letter monsters and I have a ?banishment, I am going to banish and check out the pit; otoh, if its an undead pit with many Ls and Ws and Vs and I dont have hold life and/or restore life potions, no amount of level feeling is going to make me take that on.

[Sky]

otoh, if its an undead pit with many Ls and Ws and Vs and I dont have hold life and/or restore life potions, no amount of level feeling is going to make me take that on.

if you rely on Druji to get XP, then *Destruction* works just fine, for Paladins and Rangers. Can't remember if Rogues get this but IIRC they only get Bedlam from Keleks.
Stay about 20 or so squares away and wait for the liches to dig through or pass through the walls, then destroy. Repeat a handful of times and you should be left with only z and s and maybe a few golems that you can TO.
A single undead pit can be anything between 70k and 200k XP.

Mages ofc can just cheat by spamming Ban on W, G, L and g. (and z and e and V too, why not)

[Estie]

XP are, errr, irrelevant unless you play a mage for record time.

[Pete Mack]

Mage is significantly tougher in 3.0. Until Mana Storm, mage spells are weaker and more expensive, though losing the two best elemental bolt spells in 4.2 hurts a bit. There is a lot more dependence on device in 3.0.

[Magnate]

(16) Rodent Skeletons

I have no idea what game we are playing anymore, but I wanted to play too.

I think we're playing Wasn't Everything So Much Better Before These New-Fangled Thingamabobs.

(17) Tallow candles
(18) Chamber pots

[PowerDiver]

I think we're playing Wasn't Everything So Much Better Before These New-Fangled Thingamabobs.

The question was asked "How are older versions harder to win". I quoted it in my post with (1) to (10). Why Nick threw this on its head is beyond me. Each point should be either (a) old versions were harder or (b) new versions are easier depending on how you want to word it.

Or have I lost my mind and blood falcons existed and were more dangerous in the past? I have no memory of them.

For real this time, pretending 15-18 never happened as IMO they have nothing to do with the question:

(15) We now have egos on Dragon Scale Armor, which is yet another power boost.

[Nick]

Why Nick threw this on its head is beyond me.

I was just messing with you (and everyone), thank you for acknowledging my success

There is the minor point, though, that the game has changed, but not necessarily become easier or harder. And also that the game has not changed nearly as much as the individuals playing (or developing) it...

[Pete Mack]

I suppose it depends on the class. Paladin is easier. Mage is much easier. Warrior is a somewhat easier. Rogue is harder. I never cared for priest or ranger, so I can't say.