An idea to alleviate Rangers LOS abuse

[Adam]

I enjoy STM but when it's 5 mana and you have 300 mana it's kind of hard not to abuse it. Being able to just go wherever you like all the time is kind of OP. Fortunately Morgoth is still difficult as it's nigh impossible to do LoS trickery on him.

You can also abuse LoS on Morgoth. Big empty room in the corner and a 2x2 block in the far end of it. You position yourself in a way to have LoS on him (depending on whether his moving direction is below or above diagonal). When he is getting close TO and do it again.
Let the players decide if assymetric LoS is fun for them. For me it's not. I did it for my first win though (combined with glyphs in the tunnel).

[Pete Mack]

It'd help somewhat if monsters chose angled(1379) moves preferentially over axial (2468) moves, rather the other way around. The way it works now means monsters will tend to give you LOS abuse, even if you don't already have it.

[quarague]

On the original LOS abuse topic:

I personally play without it. I had a few winners in 3.x versions and currently playing 4.2.5 and it works fine. I think I intuitively assume LOS is symmetric and occasionally get screwed if monsters have LOS advantage over me. I recall writing something like that back in the days of 3.x versions and getting a bunch of very surprised reactions.

I do use STM to dig anti-summoning corridors but that feels way less abusive to me. I have LOS of exactly one monster and only that monster has LOS of me. Very useful for summoners.

So in short, one can fix this issue by making LOS symmetric. The game is definitely still playable then. A lot of people may have to adapt their strategies though.

[Magnate]

Ah, fair enough then. I can't remember what changed when!

[Pete Mack]

No GOI in 3.0, which is what I thought we were using as a baseline.

[Magnate]

... and you said Mage is much easier? When Mage used to have infallible GoI??

[Pete Mack]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was comparing them to the old classes.

[Estie]

I might agree with the relative difficulty of classes, but even a new rogue has a harder time winning than an old rogue.
Also that is not necessarily a bad thing; at least part of the reduced difficulty is a result of less tedium (for example, it is no longer necessary to carry wands of acid ball to faster sort through loot).

[Pete Mack]

I suppose it depends on the class. Paladin is easier. Mage is much easier. Warrior is a somewhat easier. Rogue is harder. I never cared for priest or ranger, so I can't say.

[Nick]

Why Nick threw this on its head is beyond me.

I was just messing with you (and everyone), thank you for acknowledging my success

There is the minor point, though, that the game has changed, but not necessarily become easier or harder. And also that the game has not changed nearly as much as the individuals playing (or developing) it...

[PowerDiver]

I think we're playing Wasn't Everything So Much Better Before These New-Fangled Thingamabobs.

The question was asked "How are older versions harder to win". I quoted it in my post with (1) to (10). Why Nick threw this on its head is beyond me. Each point should be either (a) old versions were harder or (b) new versions are easier depending on how you want to word it.

Or have I lost my mind and blood falcons existed and were more dangerous in the past? I have no memory of them.

For real this time, pretending 15-18 never happened as IMO they have nothing to do with the question:

(15) We now have egos on Dragon Scale Armor, which is yet another power boost.

[Magnate]

(16) Rodent Skeletons

I have no idea what game we are playing anymore, but I wanted to play too.

I think we're playing Wasn't Everything So Much Better Before These New-Fangled Thingamabobs.

(17) Tallow candles
(18) Chamber pots

[Pete Mack]

Mage is significantly tougher in 3.0. Until Mana Storm, mage spells are weaker and more expensive, though losing the two best elemental bolt spells in 4.2 hurts a bit. There is a lot more dependence on device in 3.0.

[Estie]

XP are, errr, irrelevant unless you play a mage for record time.

[Sky]

otoh, if its an undead pit with many Ls and Ws and Vs and I dont have hold life and/or restore life potions, no amount of level feeling is going to make me take that on.

if you rely on Druji to get XP, then *Destruction* works just fine, for Paladins and Rangers. Can't remember if Rogues get this but IIRC they only get Bedlam from Keleks.
Stay about 20 or so squares away and wait for the liches to dig through or pass through the walls, then destroy. Repeat a handful of times and you should be left with only z and s and maybe a few golems that you can TO.
A single undead pit can be anything between 70k and 200k XP.

Mages ofc can just cheat by spamming Ban on W, G, L and g. (and z and e and V too, why not)