4.2.4 Borg

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  • Estie
    Veteran
    • Apr 2008
    • 2347

    #16
    I doubt that the borg knew what he was doing, but for what he was doing (being clvl 30 and clearing dlvl 20 over and over) the extra fire damage ring is probably better than the resist poison.

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    • Estie
      Veteran
      • Apr 2008
      • 2347

      #17
      The game crashes when the borg tries to cast the new spell glyph of warding while standing in the door of the magic shop. I have a save file shortly before that is happening, if anyone is interested.

      Comment

      • tom
        Apprentice
        • Dec 2020
        • 53

        #18
        I have a codey question about the new Borg (and its inclusion in V). Nick said he removed the Borg because with the big changes in 4.x it would have hugely increased the work. Will the Borg be a burden to variants based on 4.x? Most likely I'm guessing we can disable it being built with a #define, and it will be no trouble?

        Comment

        • backwardsEric
          Knight
          • Aug 2019
          • 531

          #19
          Originally posted by tom
          I have a codey question about the new Borg (and its inclusion in V). Nick said he removed the Borg because with the big changes in 4.x it would have hugely increased the work. Will the Borg be a burden to variants based on 4.x? Most likely I'm guessing we can disable it being built with a #define, and it will be no trouble?
          The preprocessor macro, ALLOW_BORG, controls whether the borg-specific code is compiled. It is not turned on by default for builds via CMake or Makefile.std, but is for some others - see line 11 of src/Makefile, line 16 of src/Makefile.nmake, and line 24 of src/Makefile.osx.

          Comment

          • Nick
            Vanilla maintainer
            • Apr 2007
            • 9647

            #20
            Originally posted by tom
            I have a codey question about the new Borg (and its inclusion in V). Nick said he removed the Borg because with the big changes in 4.x it would have hugely increased the work. Will the Borg be a burden to variants based on 4.x? Most likely I'm guessing we can disable it being built with a #define, and it will be no trouble?
            I should think that a lot of agoodman's work (which I haven't really looked very closely at) is to do all the stuff that was too much trouble for me alongside a big code rewrite. So the adaptation you would have to do for tactical to make the borg run would be not too bad - just look at what features you changed, and then look for where those are in the borg.

            The hard bit of course will be making it actually play well
            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
            In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

            Comment

            • agoodman
              Adept
              • Jan 2011
              • 114

              #21
              lots of activity here. Very cool to see people using the borg

              Well, I do distinguish "stupid behavior" from "bugs"... it's a bug when he gets stuck and you have to manually intervene or crashes. It is stupid behavior to sell a RoS +15. I just state this because I am prioritizing bug's right now and stupidity will get fixed as time permits.

              Originally posted by Estie
              The selling borg (HE priest) just died in town, standing in lava and trying to flee the level by recalling (which caused an error message).
              Darn it, I thought I had caught the spot he was stepping on lava and told him not to unless he was immune to fire...
              And, ya, the borg assumes he can sell stuff for money... he doesn't look at the cfg setting for that just because he still WORKS with it set, just not so well. Druids and Rangers do okay with that set because they get "free" stone to mud via the spell and can dig up all sorts of cash.

              Originally posted by Estie
              The game crashes when the borg tries to cast the new spell glyph of warding while standing in the door of the magic shop. I have a save file shortly before that is happening, if anyone is interested.
              Sure. You can either post it on github or email me directly at goodman.adam at gmail.com. (@ changed to ' at ' to avoid email scam bots)
              I thought he was disallowed from casting that when on a door... but my guess is he was "playing with spells" and thought "I will test this one while I am safe". I can add that to the list of spells not to play with... he will cast it at the right time eventually, no need to cast it just for the experience.

              Originally posted by Pete Mack
              The borg really should trust the existing power ratings for objects before it's own estimates. I also wonder if the tval for ring of flames was at one point ring of something very good, before the sval/teal system was replaced with object names.
              I have tried to eliminate any hardcoded use of tvals. if you look in borg1.c there is
              static void borg_init_svs_and_kvs(void)
              {
              int tval = tval_find_idx("food");
              sv_food_apple = borg_lookup_sval_fail(tval, "Apple");
              ...
              so it is going by name now instead of magic numbers.

              Originally posted by tom
              I have a codey question about the new Borg (and its inclusion in V). Nick said he removed the Borg because with the big changes in 4.x it would have hugely increased the work. Will the Borg be a burden to variants based on 4.x? Most likely I'm guessing we can disable it being built with a #define, and it will be no trouble?
              I tried to update the borg in a way that was more dynamic so it will be easier to move to new variants like the above tval/sval change. As Eric said previously, you can just get rid of it by removing the ALLOW_BORG compiler preprocessor variable. Should be easy to find in the makefiles.

              Comment

              • Estie
                Veteran
                • Apr 2008
                • 2347

                #22
                Borg behaviour:

                My borg has been spending the last 2 days in town or on dlvl 1 trying to scum gold; emphasis on trying, he is terrible at it.

                First off, the items he desperately wants arent worth the trouble. A rod of recall might save gold in the future but spending hours in town to get the missing 7k is foolish. Thats 14 ?wor or 7 trips worth of money.
                Also, a potion of dex shouldnt incite him to start scumming for thousands of missing cash.

                As for the process itself, he hides in a corner in town and waits for something to happen. Nothing happens though as apparently the townsfolk dont spawn in LOS; if I move him a bit he sees some of the fully spawned town (yes, every square thats not in LOS holds 1 townsperson) and starts killing, but once all t in LOS are dead he keeps firing attacks at empty space for a long time. However, he doesnt pick up the coins unless he randomly moves over them, instead retreating back into his corner after a while and resuming waiting. Thats a general behaviour, he also ignores gold in the dungeon unless its a vein.

                He is carrying various attack rods and 57 wands of mm (yes, thats 2 stacks).

                Quick fix should be to limit its scum amount to 300$; that lets him farm for ?wor and stuff he is almost able to buy. As for why he ignores gold, I have no idea whats going on.

                Comment

                • agoodman
                  Adept
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 114

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Estie
                  Borg behaviour:

                  My borg has been spending the last 2 days in town or on dlvl 1 trying to scum gold; emphasis on trying, he is terrible at it.

                  First off, the items he desperately wants arent worth the trouble. A rod of recall might save gold in the future but spending hours in town to get the missing 7k is foolish. Thats 14 ?wor or 7 trips worth of money.
                  Also, a potion of dex shouldnt incite him to start scumming for thousands of missing cash.

                  As for the process itself, he hides in a corner in town and waits for something to happen. Nothing happens though as apparently the townsfolk dont spawn in LOS; if I move him a bit he sees some of the fully spawned town (yes, every square thats not in LOS holds 1 townsperson) and starts killing, but once all t in LOS are dead he keeps firing attacks at empty space for a long time. However, he doesnt pick up the coins unless he randomly moves over them, instead retreating back into his corner after a while and resuming waiting. Thats a general behaviour, he also ignores gold in the dungeon unless its a vein.

                  He is carrying various attack rods and 57 wands of mm (yes, thats 2 stacks).

                  Quick fix should be to limit its scum amount to 300$; that lets him farm for ?wor and stuff he is almost able to buy. As for why he ignores gold, I have no idea whats going on.
                  I think him hiding in a corner of the town and not coming out is a bug... if you can get him to repeatedly do that (he does it, you save, quit the game, go back in, start the borg and he continues the behavior), shoot me a save and I will see what I think he is thinking.

                  The reason this filters as "bug" to me is that you HAVE to intervene. If it breaks being able to use the borg as a screen saver because he is just sitting there, it is a bug.

                  btw, borg tip of the day, there is a "Borg Messages" window that will tell you what he thinks he is doing. He tends to be pretty chatty but if he isn't saying what he is trying to do, turn on verbose in borg.txt and he goes from chatty to overwhelming, telling you each keypress and the like.

                  Comment

                  • lonadar
                    Rookie
                    • Nov 2019
                    • 12

                    #24
                    Yea, using 4.2.5 (since there isn't a separate thread) and it's still super slow. Delay is set to 0 (I don't see an in-game option.) Been playing for 4 days straight, level 14 but I've never seen it delve more than 3 levels deep. Has a handful of torches, but also carries 5 Flasks of Oil - surely it's found a Lantern after 4 days. It's been playing 4 days; in 4 hours I'd be 14 levels deep with 3 artifacts and I know I'm a bad player.

                    Comment

                    • Pete Mack
                      Prophet
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 6883

                      #25
                      At one point, the borg required a lantern before diving, and would scum the general store til it found one. Lantern is native to DL 5, so it may never find one on first 3 levels. If it scammed commensurate with character power, it'd do way better. (And eventual without resetting level.)

                      Comment

                      • backwardsEric
                        Knight
                        • Aug 2019
                        • 531

                        #26
                        Originally posted by lonadar
                        Yea, using 4.2.5 (since there isn't a separate thread) and it's still super slow. Delay is set to 0 (I don't see an in-game option.).
                        The in-game option that affects the speed of the borg is the movement delay. Use '=' and then 'm' to set that.

                        Comment

                        • lonadar
                          Rookie
                          • Nov 2019
                          • 12

                          #27
                          Originally posted by backwardsEric
                          The in-game option that affects the speed of the borg is the movement delay. Use '=' and then 'm' to set that.
                          Ah, thanks. Was looking for something in the Borg commands. Wow, yea, with each set to 0, I get about 2 ticks/steps every 3 seconds.

                          Comment

                          • lonadar
                            Rookie
                            • Nov 2019
                            • 12

                            #28
                            Originally posted by lonadar
                            Yea, using 4.2.5 (since there isn't a separate thread) and it's still super slow. Delay is set to 0 (I don't see an in-game option.) Been playing for 4 days straight, level 14 but I've never seen it delve more than 3 levels deep. Has a handful of torches, but also carries 5 Flasks of Oil - surely it's found a Lantern after 4 days. It's been playing 4 days; in 4 hours I'd be 14 levels deep with 3 artifacts and I know I'm a bad player.
                            So after 12 days, I wake up and find the computer crashed and rebooted through the night. I took that as a sign it was time for the Borg to stop. Loaded Angband, loaded what I thought was my last game, but it loads the Borg game. I'm not sure at what point it was, but I decided to go ahead and mess around with it. Clvl 18, still at dlvl 1, so I start diving. I get to dlvl 6 before I really should go prune some of this inventory. Go back to town, prune a lot, then Recall. Now, I didn't pay attention. Monsters were level 7, so I start roaming. Almost immediately run into Sauron and die. I'm thinking "on dlvl 6?!?" but no, for some reason, I'd Recalled to dlvl 100. I looked at the history and it seems as soon as he found the Phial, he started diving, but the record only shows one entry at dlvl15 when he reached clvl 18. I don't know if he somehow got all the way down to the bottom without leveling again or if this was some sort of setting, but it was a rather abrupt end to be sure.

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                            • Estie
                              Veteran
                              • Apr 2008
                              • 2347

                              #29
                              Thats hilarious. I am mighty curious what happened there.

                              Comment

                              • eschiss1
                                Rookie
                                • May 2013
                                • 10

                                #30
                                (1) I thought it was impossible to descend below level 99 without killing Sauron, too. Or could a teleport level have done that anyway, e.g.?...
                                (Edited (2) out because actually I know nothing of the kind )

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