Stolen items

[moonspark]

Just curious whether the items stolen off monsters by rogues are simply items that would otherwise have been dropped by killing said monsters. In other words by ruthlessly pickpocketing everything in sight is there a net gain over killing everything in sight.

[Nick]

Just curious whether the items stolen off monsters by rogues are simply items that would otherwise have been dropped by killing said monsters. In other words by ruthlessly pickpocketing everything in sight is there a net gain over killing everything in sight.

Yep, it's just the stuff they would drop. Moreover, if you steal from a unique, even if you don't kill them on that level, they'll have less stuff when you do kill them

[kineahora]

Yep, it's just the stuff they would drop. Moreover, if you steal from a unique, even if you don't kill them on that level, they'll have less stuff when you do kill them

Nice. I've never tried a rogue--sounds like an interesting change.

One thing Ive always wondered: do level feelings take account of stuff being carried by monsters? It sounds like there is a table of drops that is set up when a level is created. I've often wondered whether the level feeling is only for objects on the ground or if it factors items known to be carried by monsters on the level...

I was given cause to wonder when i got a good level feeling once and a Patriarch on the level dropped a ring of speed I think it was or maybe an artifact. Anyway the point is I had a game crash due to manipulation of inscribed items in my quiver or spell books (an earlier buggier nightly I think) and when I restarted I was on the dungeon level but hadnt yet killed the patriarch. When I re-killed it, it dropped the exact same loot, so I surmised their drops are pre-determined, probably at level creation...

[Pete Mack]

Speaking of stolen items, why doesn't Smaug DROP_GREAT? The Necklace of the Dwarves was one of the greatest artifacts of Arda.

[kineahora]

Speaking of stolen items, why doesn't Smaug DROP_GREAT? The Necklace of the Dwarves was one of the greatest artifacts of Arda.

Agree. More Tolkienized this way.

[backwardsEric]

One thing Ive always wondered: do level feelings take account of stuff being carried by monsters? It sounds like there is a table of drops that is set up when a level is created. I've often wondered whether the level feeling is only for objects on the ground or if it factors items known to be carried by monsters on the level...

The treasure feeling only includes the items that were generated on the floor. The items carried by monsters and what comes from chests or excavating rubble does not count.

[Nick]

Speaking of stolen items, why doesn't Smaug DROP_GREAT? The Necklace of the Dwarves was one of the greatest artifacts of Arda.

Smaug had the Arkenstone - and the emeralds of Girion - but not the Necklace of the Dwarves, which contained Earendil's silmaril and so went with him at the end of the First Age.

EDIT: He also had Bilbo's mithril shirt, which Belegennon is based on.

[Voovus]

Smaug had the Arkenstone - and the emeralds of Girion - but not the Necklace of the Dwarves, which contained Earendil's silmaril and so went with him at the end of the First Age.

EDIT: He also had Bilbo's mithril shirt, which Belegennon is based on.

Loot drop was very buggy in those days. Smaug was killed in Esgaroth, but all the stuff dropped miles away in Erebor. So not sure we should infer much from the quality of the loot anyway.

[Nick]

Loot drop was very buggy in those days. Smaug was killed in Esgaroth, but all the stuff dropped miles away in Erebor. So not sure we should infer much from the quality of the loot anyway.

Well, if you read the thread about luring the dragon out of the vault...

[kineahora]

Smaug had the Arkenstone - and the emeralds of Girion - but not the Necklace of the Dwarves, which contained Earendil's silmaril and so went with him at the end of the First Age.

EDIT: He also had Bilbo's mithril shirt, which Belegennon is based on.

Details details :-) :-) I agree with the poster's point though that Smaug accrued GREAT items which would be nicely reflected in game with _DROP GREAT_

[fruviad]

Yep, it's just the stuff they would drop. Moreover, if you steal from a unique, even if you don't kill them on that level, they'll have less stuff when you do kill them

If I attempt a theft, I'll probably wake the monster and lose the advantage of surprise. That first strike could've been used as an attack to cause damage, instead, and if I kill the monster, then I'll get the item anyway.

Does stealing give @ anything other than bragging rights? (My new life goal: Stealing The One Ring from Morgoth. Now THOSE are some bragging rights that any rogue can be proud of. Has anyone managed it?)

Perhaps a trivial XP reward could be earned for a successful theft; just a "feel-good" amount similar to the XP reward one receives for disarming a trap, with the XP amount varying according to the same formula that would be applied to the monster it was stolen from at that depth and time. Not enough XP to be really significant, but a few extra points to make rogues feel better about losing the first-strike advantage.

[Nick]

If I attempt a theft, I'll probably wake the monster and lose the advantage of surprise. That first strike could've been used as an attack to cause damage, instead, and if I kill the monster, then I'll get the item anyway.

Does stealing give @ anything other than bragging rights?

My idea here is that stealing can be used to steal from monsters which the player is not strong enough to kill yet. This is also the use case for the rogue Hit and Run spell.

[Estie]

Various reasons why that isnt enough incentive for me to steal:

- Uniques usually appear in groups, be it escort or grouped appearance, so you might not reach the Balrog of Moria or just risk waking up one of the big dragons in the room (btw why are the dragons grouped together ? It makes no sense lore wise).

- I might not be able to kill it now, but if I kill it later it will be deeper and hence might have better drops.

- If I started stealing from multiple uniques, I would have to keep book so as to remember which dangerous ones have now become worthless if killed.

Here is one scenario where it might be worthwhile: lets say I clear a checkerboard vault, open Ancalagons cell, no escort because of the circumstances, he is asleep, I have enough life/resists to not be in danger of getting 1-hit and I am sure I dont want to kill him before the end fight: I might try to steal from him then. But note that at this stage of the game, I probably wont have maxed stealth anymore since I am now geared for combat, not diving.

I have played around with stealing back when it was introduced, but havent found it useful since.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

I have played around with stealing back when it was introduced, but havent found it useful since.

+1 to this (also including the "Hit and Run" spell), and pretty much everything else Estie said.

[tom]

My last rogue was too weak to fight Wormtongue when encountered, but robbed him instead. Got a blue dragon scale mail, which he then used to kill Wormtongue. It felt nice

I dunno if unique drops have improved since 2.8.x days, but it seems that far more of your great loot can come from unique drops these days. Being able to get the drops anyway, when you are frail and pathetic, is pretty nice.