I'm rubbish at the game, any tips?

[clouded]

That evasion isn't too unreasonable to me, sprinting is a large boost to survivability for a character like this, especially around 700', but I would stop at 7 rather than go higher.

I would take lore-master as soon as. The only other things you need to win are Lorien and Sharpness. I would also take off some armour, preferably so you are below 10lbs on weight, you really won't survive long if things hit you either way so it's best to make sure nothing gets the chance. Pump stealth and song, and put things to sleep sooner rather than later with Lorien. Once you get around 900' things will get easier because it's no longer a cat and wolf fest, then you can collect xp until you have 20 song and sharpness and go into the throne room (remember to bring a big weapon). Good luck!

[TJS]

Good call on the lore master as it gets you loads of xp.

That character died, but I have got another one to 950ft. I took inner light as I thought it would help against the darkness from a shadow cloak, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

Any ideas what I should spend my xp on before descending? How exactly can you get a Sil? Can you sneak up and steal a Sil before Morgoth notices?

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=15154

[debo]

[spoiler]
Song of Lorien, if strong enough, will put V to sleep and his crown will fall off. At that point, you can try to carve out a sil. Switching to sharpness at that point might be risky though I might try big-weapon-with-!Str approach first.
[/spoiler]

[TJS]

Well I didn't know quite what I was doing the last game, lost concerntration and died. But I have another character in a similar position again. I find it quite easy to get to here, but dunno what I should be doing after this.

Here's the dump:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=15171

I'm a bit confused how you can ever get a Sil out of the crown, if it absorbs about 64 damage how can I ever do enough damage? Also what exactly does sharpness do - does it increase critical hit chance? Are criticals what I need and is it much harder to get criticals with heavy weapons?

By the way would Focus work on the crown or does it just work on monsters? What about Assasin (I assume not but you never know ) ?

Also I have a shadow cloak with +3 darkness, what does that mean exactly and would Inner Light counteract the darkness created?

Sorry for all the dumb questions.

[taptap]

Well I didn't know quite what I was doing the last game, lost concerntration and died. But I have another character in a similar position again. I find it quite easy to get to here, but dunno what I should be doing after this.

Here's the dump:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=15171

I'm a bit confused how you can ever get a Sil out of the crown, if it absorbs about 64 damage how can I ever do enough damage? Also what exactly does sharpness do - does it increase critical hit chance? Are criticals what I need and is it much harder to get criticals with heavy weapons?

By the way would Focus work on the crown or does it just work on monsters? What about Assasin (I assume not but you never know ) ?

Also I have a shadow cloak with +3 darkness, what does that mean exactly and would Inner Light counteract the darkness created?

Sorry for all the dumb questions.

The 64 is afaik not the correct number, at least not for the first one. It is 15d4 i.e. < 40 on average. Sharpness reduces armour: item sharpness to 50%, song depends on skill and it stacks with item sharpness. With high song armour reduced to 30% and less is not uncommon, combined with sharp items more, Angrist reduces armour to 0.

You should rename the thread. If you are alive at 950ft. in less than 10k turns you are definitely not rubbish at this game. I still don't understand how you do it with your low perception but I guess your evasion helps you out when spotted. Do you single mindedly dive and don't explore?

[TJS]

The 64 is afaik not the correct number, at least not for the first one. It is 15d4 i.e. < 40 on average. Sharpness reduces armour: item sharpness to 50%, song depends on skill and it stacks with item sharpness. With high song armour reduced to 30% and less is not uncommon, combined with sharp items more, Angrist reduces armour to 0.

Ah so with a good roll the armour can be as low as 15 (although very unlikely). How do critical hits work? Can you get a shortsword to do high enough damage?

You should rename the thread. If you are alive at 950ft. in less than 10k turns you are definitely not rubbish at this game. I still don't understand how you do it with your low perception but I guess your evasion helps you out when spotted. Do you single mindedly dive and don't explore?

I don't understand how perception helps you not get detected, I thought it was purely down to stealth. With listen you can tell where invisible monsters are, I've not had any problems with monsters appearing out of nowhere.

I put 4500 points initially into stealth and save 500 for Disguise. I dive on every downward staircase to get enough perception for Keen Senses (to help avoid running into stuff) and then Listen makes things much easier from that point on. Then I collect xp for Lore Master which then gives a load of free xp to use to get Dodge and Sprinting for when I do get detected and if so then put in any spare xp to Evasion so they don't kill you before sprinting kicks in.

Can take Song of Silence, but I don't think it makes that much difference. I rarely go into Stealth mode.

Wandering monsters tend to just run straight past you while you wait in rooms most of the time, the trick is not to get stuck in corridors with fast monsters coming towards you.

Most deaths happen early often from accidentally attacking a monster before Keen Senses (wish you could get a warning before you do that), tripping a trap that makes birds surround you or getting stuck in a corridor with wolves coming the other way.

[TJS]

Ugh accidentally attacked a Cat Assasin by mistake when wandering about and now dead. Would really like a "don't attack anything you're aware of setting"

[debo]

I don't understand how perception helps you not get detected, I thought it was purely down to stealth. With listen you can tell where invisible monsters are, I've not had any problems with monsters appearing out of nowhere.

I think he may be referring to traps, which generally make quite the ruckus when they are triggered. Higher perception = increased probability of detecting traps in your LOS.

[debo]

Ugh accidentally attacked a Cat Assasin by mistake when wandering about and now dead. Would really like a "don't attack anything you're aware of setting"

FYI you can change the symbols and colors of monsters in your edit/monsters.txt file, IIRC. If I was doing a pacifist build, I might have an alternate edit file where all the dark monsters (shadows, deathblades, cat assassins, etc.) were colored bright red or something, to prevent accidental miskeys into glyphs you just didn't see

[taptap]

Listen depends on perception (and helps against bumping). Trap detection (traps make noise) and disarming (otherwise both noise and potentially high damage) depend on perception. And maybe it would have helped you with your cat assassin (it may have been hidden/invisible before you hit it). But apparently you are much better at playing stealth / evasion pacifist so don't listen to me, my pacifists used to have very little or no evasion so avoiding detection was much more crucial for me (my first successful quasi-pacifist http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14774, more of a singer really).

I realize you have seen the depth only exclusively pacifist so far. I guess it is the best if you read up the combat mechanics in the manual.

Criticals happen when you win the attack roll (melee vs. enemy evasion) with a high difference, that is 7 + weapon weight in lb. Finesse changes the base to 6, subtlety + finesse to 4 (i.e. a shortsword will give a critical hit for each 5 or 6 points typically). A subtle shortsword doesn't shy the comparison with the heavy weapons in the game (except against a few armoured and critical resistant opponents).

[TJS]

Listen depends on perception (and helps against bumping). Trap detection (traps make noise) and disarming (otherwise both noise and potentially high damage) depend on perception. And maybe it would have helped you with your cat assassin (it may have been hidden/invisible before you hit it).

The cat assasin was visible, but I was running about not really paying attention and walked straight into him. Accidentally moving into visible monsters has killed my last 3 characters at 950ft. I think it is because once I get there I'm not really sure what to do so I start to lose concentration as I wander about not knowing what to look for (or what skills to take next).

If there was a pacifist mode whereby you are asked "are you sure you want attack the monster?" like for traps it would have saved me.

With Listen you don't need to see them every move, just be a aware that they are there and move out the way of where they could be going next (stairs, doorways etc.). Monsters rarely search the corners of the room or even the squares next to a doorway and they don't seem to see you if you aren't moving about.

But apparently you are much better at playing stealth / evasion pacifist so don't listen to me, my pacifists used to have very little or no evasion so avoiding detection was much more crucial for me (my first successful quasi-pacifist http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=14774, more of a singer really).

I hardly ever actually buff evasion except to take sprinting to avoid getting stuck in corridors with something fast coming the other way. I only buffed my evasion skill so much here since I'd already got detected once and the adjacent monsters could have one shotted me before sprinting got me up to speed to escape (you don't take a move to increase your skills so it made sense to increase the survival chance a bit here). I generally rely on not being detected ever.

Interesting looking at that dump, didn't realise there was another battle at the end. Do you really need 31 perception? I would have thought most traps were visible at 20 perception.

I realize you have seen the depth only exclusively pacifist so far. I guess it is the best if you read up the combat mechanics in the manual.

Criticals happen when you win the attack roll (melee vs. enemy evasion) with a high difference, that is 7 + weapon weight in lb. Finesse changes the base to 6, subtlety + finesse to 4 (i.e. a shortsword will give a critical hit for each 5 or 6 points typically). A subtle shortsword doesn't shy the comparison with the heavy weapons in the game (except against a few armoured and critical resistant opponents).

Thanks for the information.

The Sil doesn't have an evasion value does it? Does that mean you can get criticals every round against it? In that case a heavier weapon should be best?

[debo]

FWIW, mpa-sil has some mechanisms to solve the pacifist-attack problem -- if you inscribe a weapon with !a or simply wield no weapon at all, you will be prompted before attacking a monster!

I believe half mentioned that this will show up in a future version of Sil?

[TJS]

FWIW, mpa-sil has some mechanisms to solve the pacifist-attack problem -- if you inscribe a weapon with !a or simply wield no weapon at all, you will be prompted before attacking a monster!

Sounds good, what is mpa-sil?

Although I'm not 100% convinced that is should be included. Having to pay attention whilst sneaking about is what makes it hard.

I believe half mentioned that this will show up in a future version of Sil?

Well I certainly won't be complaining!

[half]

Most deaths happen early often from accidentally attacking a monster before Keen Senses (wish you could get a warning before you do that)

There is an option for this in the next version.

edit: actually it is exactly the !a inscription mentioned above.

[half]

Although I'm not 100% convinced that is should be included. Having to pay attention whilst sneaking about is what makes it hard.

You still have to pay attention, but it is particularly galling to physically walk into a monster that you knew was there (as opposed to walking into a room with a monster that spots you, or being trapped in a corridor etc).