Sil Builds/Challenges/Concepts/Stupid-Ascension-Tricks

[HallucinationMushroom]

The voice cost for a horn use is currently 20. Is that too high? Would 10 be better? I don't think there is much horn use at the moment, so maybe this would make them more balanced.

I meant to respond much sooner, but the ice storm did quite a number to where I live!

Yes, I think 10 cost (or channeling 1/2 cost) would definitely cause me to actually consider carrying more horns, and cause me much more pause and consideration on what to toss as the old backpack started to get full, of which horns almost always go first.

Most of my characters get one blast on a horn before there is a rest period, which makes horns too cost intensive to really carry around. Sure, stun for -2 is great, but I've got to get it to work when I need it to in the first place, and then it's a one use trick. Blasting is about the only horn I ever consider keeping, but with usually only 1 blast, I can't even break and clear rubble with any decent speed. And this is with grace '3' characters, which is actually a pretty good grace score considering challenge races, I think.

Two main additions got me wondering why I don't use horns more... namely, chasms and the ability to forge horns. A low smith jeweller can make a horn of warning, which is great for luring in crowd monsters and learning that blasting horns occasionally make chasms. And, I usually love preparing battlefields before a big fight. I can imagine a scenario where I make some rubble, some chasms... use the horn of warning to draw them in... use a horn of force to push them down chasms... rain rubble down on enemies... and scare away packs of monsters I don't want to tangle with. A 'utility specialist' seems like it would be a lot of fun.

I mostly only tinker with Sil now, and don't really play much, but I still love to think about it and read up on all the amazing characters getting posted and think about new ways to push character builds. I would lean toward making channeling reduce horn cost, since there isn't really any barrier to using horns other than having the available voice and the horn, though I do note that the more useful horns have decent sized smithing price tags attached.

I have been really missing unwavering voice to try out a lot of my utility horn specialist ideas.

[taptap]

The voice cost for a horn use is currently 20. Is that too high? Would 10 be better? I don't think there is much horn use at the moment, so maybe this would make them more balanced.

Imo you could simply reduce it, it is not that they are overused as is. Or make it different for the different horns. Or half (or is it halve) it by channeling.

The force horn has a neat effect, but I wonder if anyone will ever bother to use it for it is way too specialised imo.

I do consider channeling + terror on a no-stealth, no-song archer.

Channeling + stun could potentially be useful on a melee char that raises will anyway, just think if you can stun or maybe even heavily stun some hard opponents. Now combine that with heavy armour (high will), maybe song of staying so you can basically fight their skills first, get even more will and only then attack. Maybe I should try that with a Belegost dwarf. Although in melee you want all the other will abilities as well.

Stunned: (1 to 50 turns on the stun counter), You get –2 to all of your skills

Heavily Stunned: (51 to 100 turns on the stun counter), You get –4 to all of your skills

Knocked Out: Bonus points for knocking out a Balrog.

[Scatha]

I think the idea for channeling to halve the voice cost of horns is quite nice. It already has an extra bonus for staves, so this would be more symmetric.

[half]

Oh, I see, thanks. I have been toying with horns and channeling with Sil lately and plum forgot about staves. I was hoping you had made horns work so I could study. I think with the addition of chasms, a horn character could become a sort of terrain specialist... But my biggest obstacle has been voice cost for multiple blasts.

The voice cost for a horn use is currently 20. Is that too high? Would 10 be better? I don't think there is much horn use at the moment, so maybe this would make them more balanced.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Oh, I see, thanks. I have been toying with horns and channeling with Sil lately and plum forgot about staves. I was hoping you had made horns work so I could study. I think with the addition of chasms, a horn character could become a sort of terrain specialist... But my biggest obstacle has been voice cost for multiple blasts.

Sent from my brick of a phone... Power out... Thanks ice storm!

[taptap]

Hey, you got channeling to work? That's awesome. I bet not having unwavering voice really would hurt a horn specialist. I tried channeling characters a few weeks ago and they all stank, and got me thinking maybe channeling could reduce voice cost for horns. I can't tell from your character what's going on with your weird build... could you elaborate here for me, I'm very interested!

Basically I did what half said, use staff of slumber + channeling on a non-song based stealth char to put V to sleep, I also wanted to take enough will to counter the songs. It was also crucial in escaping from the throne room. Other than that, I do not think that char was so weird. Stealth char without song basically, with a little sniping here and there, but I do that on singers too. I lost so many stealthy chars to bats and insects I rather shoot them first.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Hey, you got channeling to work? That's awesome. I bet not having unwavering voice really would hurt a horn specialist. I tried channeling characters a few weeks ago and they all stank, and got me thinking maybe channeling could reduce voice cost for horns. I can't tell from your character what's going on with your weird build... could you elaborate here for me, I'm very interested!

[taptap]

So in HM's comment in my last dump, he challenged me to create a build that focused on Channeling.
...
I am astonished. Why would you even bother? Has anyone here used it to reasonable effect before???????
...
Yes, I was quite drunk when I wrote that last post. Apologies for the belligerence I've never taken Channeling myself, but I can see how it could be situationally useful -- sort of like throwing mastery for staves.

This sounded so weird when I first read it, but it does work indeed. It is far more nerve wracking than song based stealth builds though.

[taptap]

Gravedigger challenge: Carry all skeletons of your kind to the outside.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Because of the symmetry of the opposed rolls, the doubling is formally almost identical to the current curse. It's actually slightly easier, I guess, since some opposed rolls are take against e.g. herbs rather than monsters.

Further repeated rolls would of course make it harder. The limit of this is the case where monsters always take maximum rolls on their skill rolls.

Ack! I just took a double !! math critical strike to the face.

That makes sense, thanks for pointing this out. I'd still like to get around to mucking with the code to make perma-hallucination a fun option. If I can ever make myself the quiet-time I need to learn, I'll give it a shot. Playing PoE or Sil is way easier than learning coding from scratch, with children fussing about, I imagine.

[Scatha]

#1. After reading Psi's terrible luck with the dice on a recent RIP character, A backwards sil-curse would be interesting. That is, the monsters all make double rolls and take the better one. And then, if that proves a winner, 3 rolls, 4 rolls, etc...

Because of the symmetry of the opposed rolls, the doubling is formally almost identical to the current curse. It's actually slightly easier, I guess, since some opposed rolls are take against e.g. herbs rather than monsters.

Further repeated rolls would of course make it harder. The limit of this is the case where monsters always take maximum rolls on their skill rolls.

[taptap]

Try playing without allocating stats at the outset. Just base stats, plain and simple.

Maybe you should take 4 variable points (instead of 13) for starters. It still would map current Noldor to about Edain and Edain to ???. I haven't seen anyone doing such hardcore stat challenges, even Edain are fairly rare.

[T-Mick]

Try playing without allocating stats at the outset. Just base stats, plain and simple.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Whoa cool! Thanks... I'll give this a try as soon as I can. This idea appeals to my bloodlust. Doesn't hurt that I've been playing Hotline Miami lately... it's like Ultraviolence injected into my brain stem.

[MarvinPA]

What if the monsters always made the best possible roll? Would it still be possible to win?

Here's a fork of mpa-sil by mnoqy that does something a bit similar to this - inspired by DoomRL's Angel of Max Carnage, so both monsters and the player always hit and always roll max damage. Pretty fun to mess with (and really hard).