Sil 1.1

[Fendell Orcbane]

I would go a step further and advise new players to limit ability purchases rather severely and focus on the core skills of their character path. For warrior types, which keeps complexity down, I think simple evasion and melee pumping will get you pretty far, at least until darkness and invisibles may prompt inner light or keen senses. Also, good dex and con scores... 4/5 5/4.

This might just be a playstyle thing, but when I first started playing I couldn't help but to be tempted by all the amazingly cool abilities, and I would reach for something like loremaster or whirlwind or something equally sexy too quickly and crash and burn pretty hard. Or, pile up cheap 500xp abilities and neglect basics. I really disliked Sil at first, for that. It felt like cool abilities were promised, but that you really couldn't acquire them and survive. It took me, probably longer than most, to think about creating a solid foundation and working toward those abilities.

Wow this brings me back to how I felt when I started playing Sil too...Sadly, I never because good enough to kill Morgoth....Oh well.

[Fendell Orcbane]

It should be working (and worked when I tested the downloaded version). Did you have any previous versions running on that machine? My machines are running 10.6.8, so I'm not certain about 10.7. Anyone else have ideas?

It is possible that this is the old "quits silently on startup" bug that has been there since launch, though that only seems to affect about 10% of Mac users and I hadn't heard of a previous version working and then one stopping working. It seemed to be all or nothing. Nick (of FA fame) had a go at debugging that but we didn't solve it.

I'm on 10.7.4 and it seems fine to me!

[Scatha]

I've been hesitant to write a mini "how to win sil" guide because a) it's lame just to tell people "get these skills and these abilities." b) I don't think there's one best build. c) I usually have a couple of skills I want to try in a particular game, but often I base what other skills I get on what I find.

I have been wondering about trying to collect general advice and making some sort of guide, though I wouldn't want to spoil the game by going too far with it. (I'm also bad at organising things like that)

Sounds sensible. I agree that a collection of advice is far better than a "how to win" guide. I like your "whichever melee ability you want" advice to beginners as a way to guide them without dictating.

Everything here is great advice. I started surviving to '500 a lot more once I stopped treating skill levels as just requirements for abilities and started thinking about the actual scores.

This is an interesting point. I think the early playtesters (half and me included) were somewhat guilty of this after Abilities were first brought in, and we even had the advantage that we'd played the game without Abilities, so we knew how important the skill levels were. If there were a natural way to hint at this to players in the tutorial or the manual, that might be worthwhile, but I'm not sure how to do it.

I'll second the Armoursmith/Artistry(/Heavy Armour Use/Critical Resistance) build for new players after they've gotten the hang of how the game works.

Just to point out that while I also enjoy going the heavy armour route with lots of protection, it's also very viable to use Artistry to give you a nice set of medium-light armour with fair protection but without the usual penalties to Melee and Evasion. I think this is pretty simple and can be quite powerful through to at least the mid-game.

[Psi]

Started a comedy game in my lunch hour. Found my largest ever stash of !Quickness - netting 12 by 400' and then found the Robe of Celebrindal for the first time ever. Gofigure.

[fizzix]

I was away for the weekend, but I'll try to write up a new post for the front page on the 1.1 release tonight and submit it to half/scatha for their approval. Sorry about the delay!

[debo]

Started a comedy game in my lunch hour. Found my largest ever stash of !Quickness - netting 12 by 400' and then found the Robe of Celebrindal for the first time ever. Gofigure.

I just played a game where I worked towards Sprinting by 500', took the ability... and then found Boots of Speed 2 squares away

[Scatha]

Ooh, interesting! Where are tridents mentioned?

The fact that Nick asked made we wonder. I've just done a little checking, and I can't find tridents mentioned anywhere. I think that we've been influenced by the numerous artists who have depicted Ulmo with a trident, presumably playing to the parallels between Ulmo and Poseidon (which the viewer will often be familiar with).

For reference, here's the description from Unfinished Tales of Tuor's meeting with Ulmo:

... and it seemed to [Tuor] that a great wave rose far off and rolled towards the land, but wonder held him, and he remained there unmoved. And the wave came towards him, and upon it lay a mist of shadow. Then suddenly as it drew near it curled, and broke, and rushed forward in long arms of foam; but where it had broken there stood dark against the rising storm a living shape of great height and majesty.
Then Tuor bowed in reverence, for it seemed to him that he beheld a mighty king. A tall crown he wore like silver, from which his long hair fell down as foam glimmering in the dusk and as he cast back the grey mantle that hung about him like a mist, behold! he was clad in a gleaming coat, close-fitted as the mail of mighty fish, and in a kirtle of deep green that flashed and flickered with sea-fire as he strode slowly towards the land. In this manner the Dweller of the Deep, whom the Noldor name Ulmo, Lord of Waters, showed himself to Tuor son of Huor of the House of Hador beneath Vinyamar.
He set no foot upon the shore, but standing knee-deep in the shadowy sea he spoke to Tuor, and then for the light of his eyes and for the sound of his deep voice that came as it seemed from the foundations of the world, fear fell upon Tuor and he cast himself down upon the sand.

The continuation is also interesting, because it concerns a certain item which I'd forgotten about:

"Arise, Tuor, son of Huor!" said Ulmo. "Fear not my wrath, though long have I called to thee unheard; and setting out at last thou hast tarried on thy journey hither. In the Spring thou shouldst have stood here; but now a fell winter cometh soon from the land of the Enemy. Haste thou must learn, and the pleasant road that I designed for thee must be changed. For my counsels have been scorned, and a great evil creeps upon the Valley of Sirion, and already a host of foes is come between and thy goal."
"What then is my goal. Lord?" said Tuor.
"That which thy heart hath ever sought," answered Ulmo: to find Turgon, and look upon the hidden city. For thou art arrayed thus to be my messenger, even in the arms which long ago decreed for thee. Yet now thou must under shadow pass through peril. Wrap thyself therefore in this cloak, and cast it never aside, until thou come to thy journey's end."
Then it seemed to Tuor that Ulmo parted his grey mantle, and cast to him a lappet, and as it fell about him it was for him a great cloak wherein he might wrap himself over all, from head to foot.
"Thus thou shall walk under my shadow," said Ulmo. "But tarry no more; for in the lands of Anar and in the fires of Melkor it will not endure. Wilt thou take up my errand?"

This cloak is indeed key in hiding Tuor from enemy eyes in his journey to Gondolin. I think we may be able to have another canonical artefact Shadow Cloak!

Edit: The chronology is not quite right, but we are a little vague about the setting, and there are worse offenders.

Ah, I see FA already has it! (though I would prefer to name the item "of Ulmo", as UT does, rather than "of Tuor")

[fizzix]

Ah, I see FA already has it! (though I would prefer to name the item "of Ulmo", as UT does, rather than "of Tuor")

I think V has the ethereal cloak of Tuor, unless it's been removed.

[debo]

The fact that Nick asked made we wonder. I've just done a little checking, and I can't find tridents mentioned anywhere. I think that we've been influenced by the numerous artists who have depicted Ulmo with a trident, presumably playing to the parallels between Ulmo and Poseidon (which the viewer will often be familiar with).

For reference, here's the description from Unfinished Tales of Tuor's meeting with Ulmo:



The continuation is also interesting, because it concerns a certain item which I'd forgotten about:



This cloak is indeed key in hiding Tuor from enemy eyes in his journey to Gondolin. I think we may be able to have another canonical artefact Shadow Cloak!

Edit: The chronology is not quite right, but we are a little vague about the setting, and there are worse offenders.

Ah, I see FA already has it! (though I would prefer to name the item "of Ulmo", as UT does, rather than "of Tuor")

"The Shadow Cloak of Ulmo's [something]" would be great... except I don't know what "something" could be ("the shadow cloak of Ulmo's shadow" is a tad redundant )

[half]

I've just done a little checking, and I can't find tridents mentioned anywhere.

In that case, I'd be happy with removing them -- they don't add much.

Regarding Tuor's items, those waiting in store for him in Vinyamar are in comments in the artefact.txt file (using the templates from FAAngband). One reason I hadn't added them was the chronology. Do we have any post- Beren and Luthien artefacts? I thought this would be the biggest offender so far chronology-wise. (Obviously it is silly for every historically possible named item to be in Angband anyway, but we do restrict it to only a few in a given game). If there are bigger offenders, then I suppose I'd be happy with the cloak and other items of Tuor. They are certainly pretty remarkable and flavourful items.

[Scatha]

In that case, I'd be happy with removing them -- they don't add much.

Sounds good to me.

Regarding Tuor's items, those waiting in store for him in Vinyamar are in comments in the artefact.txt file (using the templates from FAAngband). One reason I hadn't added them was the chronology. Do we have any post- Beren and Luthien artefacts? I thought this would be the biggest offender so far chronology-wise. (Obviously it is silly for every historically possible named item to be in Angband anyway, but we do restrict it to only a few in a given game). If there are bigger offenders, then I suppose I'd be happy with the cloak and other items of Tuor. They are certainly pretty remarkable and flavourful items.

I think the most egregious violation of the chronology is the bow of Earendil. One could claim that the item predates Earendil, but the name is strangely future-predicting (as we rejected the idea of calling one of the Balrogs "Durin's Bane" -- though that is wrong by two ages rather than ~50 years). However the item is very cool.

There are a handful of other inconsistencies. Dramborleg mentions that it would be wielded by Tuor in defence of Gondolin, but Maeglin's description puts that in the past tense. And the Easterling descriptions reference the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, which happened a few years after Beren and Luthien stole the Silmaril.

We might have a go at some point at cleaning up some of the issues there, but I think in any case we would be good to add in the items associated with Tuor, because as items they predate him. Since we leave unexplained how almost everything ends up in the treasuries of Angband, who is to say that the hall at Vinyamar wasn't looted at some point? (Similarly the gilded dwarf-mask that Turin finds in the treasuries of Nargothrond and we were thinking of adding.)

Edit: I had "Turin" for "Tuor".

[Nick]

I think the most egregious violation of the chronology is the bow of Earendil. One could claim that the item predates Earendil, but the name is strangely future-predicting (as we rejected the idea of calling one of the Balrogs "Durin's Bane" -- though that is wrong by two ages rather than ~50 years). However the item is very cool.

There are a handful of other inconsistencies. Dramborleg mentions that it would be wielded by Turin in defence of Gondolin, but Maeglin's description puts that in the past tense. And the Easterling descriptions reference the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, which happened a few years after Beren and Luthien stole the Silmaril.

We might have a go at some point at cleaning up some of the issues there, but I think in any case we would be good to add in the items associated with Tuor, because as items they predate him. Since we leave unexplained how almost everything ends up in the treasuries of Angband, who is to say that the hall at Vinyamar wasn't looted at some point? (Similarly the gilded dwarf-mask that Turin finds in the treasuries of Nargothrond and we were thinking of adding.)

I like your attitude

In FA I abandoned setting an actual point in time - So Eol, Glaurung in Nargothrond and Sauron in Tol-In-Gaurhoth are all contemparaneous.

For Beleriand, I'm planning the setting to be post Beren/Luthien, but while Glaurung is still in Nargothrond as far as locations go; so Tol-In-Gaurhoth has to go. I'm not sure how hard-core I'll be about uniques and items.

[Psi]

In the description of Silent Watchers it says they are vulnerable to shattering. What does that actually mean? Hit them with a tunneling weapon, trumpet of blasting, _Earthquakes?

Whilst the discussion is on artefacts, how about something like:

Great Helm of Ecthelion [-1,1d3] <+2>
Song, RES_FIRE, RES_FEAR,
Song of Staying

Trying to stay thematic to what I have read about him and also his duel with Gothmog.

[HallucinationMushroom]

I know I've blasted Grotesques with horns of blasting before and they take decent damage... maybe 3 stars? 4? I'll have to try that out with Silent Watchers... that'd be worth lugging voice potions for with my gracefully challenged elves.

[debo]

In the description of Silent Watchers it says they are vulnerable to shattering. What does that actually mean? Hit them with a tunneling weapon, trumpet of blasting, _Earthquakes?

Whilst the discussion is on artefacts, how about something like:

Great Helm of Ecthelion [-1,1d3] <+2>
Song, RES_FIRE, RES_FEAR,
Song of Staying

Trying to stay thematic to what I have read about him and also his duel with Gothmog.

I've hit silent watchers with the glaive of gaurin before, and that has +3 tunneling. Doesn't seem to do anything more spectacular than sharpness. Unless 'shattering' is hardcoded to mean mattock/shovel, or sharpness supercedes 'shattering' in a conditional block somewhere