Sil 1.0.1

[Psi]

*edit* this is purely anecdotal but it seems like whatever piece of armor I find first I find three or four of them before I fill any other slots.

The same also goes for weapons. I found 2 defender shortswords within a few squares and I've now just found two stacks of 3 special throwing axes - which do stack to make 6. It seems to be very often that I find the exact same type of object in close proximity.

[Narvius]

In fact, with the right skills (finesse and subtlety) it is downright UNLIKELY to deal the base damage with a shortsword. IF you hit, you often overroll by at least 5-6, at which point you already deal an additional die of damage (2d8). At 10 or 12 (depending on the weight), you get another die. In the extreme case, you might get as high 6d8 (overroll by 25 with a light one - hence d8, assuming +1 strength bonus limit).

[Psi]

Erm, how exactly are short swords superior in any way to curved swords? Short swords do 1d7 damage, while curved swords do 2d5. In addition to 2d5 being intrinsically better than 1d7, due to the way that strength bonuses work (adding sides to the dice), curved swords get twice the strength bonus of short swords. I suppose short swords might have a smaller accuracy/evasion penalty, but the difference is pretty trivial - I forget exactly but it's something like -2 for curved swords vs. -1 for short swords. And since both weapons are single-handed, and curved swords are heavier, the curved sword has a higher maximum strength bonus, too!

...it will be because shortswords are more likely to hit criticals with their lower weight.

[Narvius]

Because you're slightly superhuman at best, and they are the finest elite forces of darkness?

I recently started playing V again, which showed me just how different games they've become.
It's a good time for variants, it seems, with completely new games like ToME 4 (2 was still pretty bandy at heart) and Sil emerging... (actually, not so much emerging as suddenly appearing after quietly gathering strength.)

[Fendell Orcbane]

Whirlwind attack only works when there are no adjacent obstacles (walls, closed doors, rubble).

Webs are traps.

Speed is either 1, 2, 3, or 4 (4 is only available for monsters, not the player). It is a linear system and affects when you get a turn. You can do whatever you like with a turn (attack or move). Thus it affects both.

Why should monsters have more speed available than players? That seems kinda unfair.

[ekolis]

Erm, how exactly are short swords superior in any way to curved swords? Short swords do 1d7 damage, while curved swords do 2d5. In addition to 2d5 being intrinsically better than 1d7, due to the way that strength bonuses work (adding sides to the dice), curved swords get twice the strength bonus of short swords. I suppose short swords might have a smaller accuracy/evasion penalty, but the difference is pretty trivial - I forget exactly but it's something like -2 for curved swords vs. -1 for short swords. And since both weapons are single-handed, and curved swords are heavier, the curved sword has a higher maximum strength bonus, too!

[Jungle_Boy]

I like the idea of starting with a broken sword. I may be doing looking at things wrong if many characters like shortswords. I don't think I've ever used one much.

My thought was that it is possible to gain XP without killing monsters but it is not possible to gain XP if your dead cause you had no armor. Maybe you could give people a wooden sword or club to start

*edit* this is purely anecdotal but it seems like whatever piece of armor I find first I find three or four of them before I fill any other slots.

[half]

I'd like to second the recommendation to guarantee armor in the starting room instead of a weapon. Giving everyone a curved sword to start is basically obsoleting several other items before you even see them, like daggers, shortswords, and broken swords.

So all characters would start off punching wolves to death? Doesn't sound very thematic to me, as well as taking away some of the interest of finding the first pieces of armour (should I explore all of 50 ft to try to find leather armour? or are my boots enough? etc).

As for weapons, I would certainly put short swords above curved swords -- many characters find them *much* better, as in "short swords are excellent and the weapon of choice and curved swords are awful, and the second worst weapon type in the game". Daggers are a harder call. Few characters could prefer them to short swords, though some could prefer them to curved swords (stealth characters mainly). Daggers are also good for rapid attack or two weapon fighting and come with many unique special types (though this comes later and doesn't really affect your point). Broken Swords are indeed worse, so they don't see much action. In the future there will be a more difficult 'Nightmare mode' where you start with only a broken sword. We tried it out in playtesting and it is too difficult for the normal game.

[half]

A couple of things...I feel like my whirlwind attack isn't working. Does it not work the way that a herb of rage works? Are webs traps or just random things that come out of nowhere? And how does speed work in Sil? Is it just for movement or does it help with attacks?

Whirlwind attack only works when there are no adjacent obstacles (walls, closed doors, rubble).

Webs are traps.

Speed is either 1, 2, 3, or 4 (4 is only available for monsters, not the player). It is a linear system and affects when you get a turn. You can do whatever you like with a turn (attack or move). Thus it affects both.

[Fendell Orcbane]

A couple of things...I feel like my whirlwind attack isn't working. Does it not work the way that a herb of rage works? Are webs traps or just random things that come out of nowhere? And how does speed work in Sil? Is it just for movement or does it help with attacks?

[Jungle_Boy]

I'd like to second the recommendation to guarantee armor in the starting room instead of a weapon. Giving everyone a curved sword to start is basically obsoleting several other items before you even see them, like daggers, shortswords, and broken swords.

[Djabanete]

"You are unable to shift the rubble with this weapon."

[will_asher]

Nice going on finishing it with throwing axes. On the other hand: if you're throwing things at a statue then you've got to admit that there's some possibility that you're not going to be able to get them back...

I didn't finish it off with throwing axes. I thought I could and I tried to, but it soaked up all the damage with its absorbsion. I finished it off with another charge with my great axe next time I could get close enough without getting scared by its spell.

Regarding the message: this is one of those things which is a choice between flavour in game and clarity of instructions, and I think I have to side with the better flavour: "You fail to move the rubble" seems to say that your character tried, but despite xer best attempts, made no significant effort, and realised xe must forge on!

Flavor is important, but so is clarity. Maybe "You fail to make any progress moving the rubble" would be better, something that says you're not getting anywhere.

[Jungle_Boy]

It heals you 7 health every time you slay something with the weapon -- very powerful against crowds, not so good in extended single combat.

That would definitely be very powerful for a heavy hitting weapon with say whirlwind attack.

[meneldil]

I just killed a silent watcher for the first time. Earlier in the battle, I charged it, bringing it down to one star. I thought maybe I could finish it off with throwing axes (because it kept scaring me and I could still throw the axes while scared). So when I finally killed it, I was rather annoyed to find a pile of rubble where the silent watcher used to be, burying my axes. I have no digging tools. And when I tried to move the rubble with my great axe, it said "You fail to move the rubble." So I tried several more times with the same result. Then I looked in the code and found that you have no chance without a digging tool, even with rubble. The message "You fail to move the rubble" implies that you might succeed if you keep trying. If you say "You can't dig without a digging tool", it would be a lot clearer and keep people from repeatedly banging their great axes into a pile of rubble to no effect whatsoever.
Also, I had heard before that you can't dig without a digging tool in Sil, but I assumed that applied to magma, quartz, and granite, but probably not to rubble. I guess I was wrong.

Nice going on finishing it with throwing axes. On the other hand: if you're throwing things at a statue then you've got to admit that there's some possibility that you're not going to be able to get them back...

Regarding the message: this is one of those things which is a choice between flavour in game and clarity of instructions, and I think I have to side with the better flavour: "You fail to move the rubble" seems to say that your character tried, but despite xer best attempts, made no significant effort, and realised xe must forge on! Saying "You can't dig without a digging tool" puts me in mind of a slightly comical Lucas Arts adventure game: not the flavour Sil is going for. I would certainly hate to see such a message in one of my games.

Also, I'm pretty sure what you can dig with is covered in the tutorial, and even if not (alas, I can't check right now), I'm not at all convinced that "You fail to move the rubble" implies you can do it.

EDIT: Great. Now a kemenrauko caused an earthquake and trapped me. I haven't seen a digging tool all game. If you're going to make digging impossible without a digging tool, digging tools need to be available. (It also might be cool/appropriate if my staff of freedom could get me out of this...)

Not finding a digging tool by the time you get to see Kemenraukar sounds pretty unlucky - by 700ft you should have had plenty of time to find one, and if you haven't then it sounds like you've just been very unfortunate. Remember that it is possible to forge them if you have weaponsmithing, so if you are proving particularly unlucky with regards to digging implements, you at least can remedy this using a forge.