New level types (spoiler-y)

[d_m]

As of this weekend, the nightlies have a new kind of level which can be created: labyrinths.

I will be interested to see what people notice about them, and discuss them further.

I hope to introduce some more level types in the next week or two, including cave levels.

[Derakon]

Could you briefly describe how labyrinths work? If they're anything like what classic maze-generation algorithms output (single-tile corridors and single-tile walls, one unique route from point A to point B) then I suspect the common response will be "Walls? What walls?". They're also likely to make combat easier by greatly limiting monsters' access to the player.

[d_m]

Could you briefly describe how labyrinths work? If they're anything like what classic maze-generation algorithms output (single-tile corridors and single-tile walls, one unique route from point A to point B) then I suspect the common response will be "Walls? What walls?". They're also likely to make combat easier by greatly limiting monsters' access to the player.

I'm reluctant to discuss it too much if people haven't seen/played one yet.

Currently walls/paths are 1x1 and there are no loops. This could be easily changed. Labyrinths can be unlit and/or have permanent walls, and treasures on the ground (better for harder types).

My observation is that the levels are harder, due to the fact that monsters are always closer and you can't walk past them. We'll see...

[Sirridan]

When do they show up? The only thing cool so far was an amulet of trickery at dl 1.

[d_m]

When do they show up? The only thing cool so far was an amulet of trickery at dl 1.

Currently they are pretty rare (maybe too rare) although the chance to generate them isn't directly tied to dlvl. As you get deeper I expect you'll see a few. I think I saw six of them on my last trip down to 100.

If no one hits them then maybe I'll boost the frequency a bit.

[juggle5]

Hmm. I tried jumping through maybe 30 levels (mostly around level 80) using wizard mode and didn't see any labyrinth levels. Maybe they're too rare?

Also, as long as you're considering new types of dungeons, I really like some of the levels in NPPAngband. The terrain is cool; also the odd-shaped rooms are pretty neat. Here's an example screenshot:

http://angband.oook.cz/screen-show.php?id=945

[CunningGabe]

I just hit one of these at DL4, and while there wasn't anything interesting on the ground, it was kind of a fun change of pace.

There were no down staircases -- the only other staircase I found was also an up staircase. Is this intentional?

[d_m]

There were no down staircases -- the only other staircase I found was also an up staircase. Is this intentional?

That is not intentional! I didn't think that could happen.

I will check this code. If anyone sees this please send me a savefile (if you can).

[CunningGabe]

That is not intentional! I didn't think that could happen.

I will check this code. If anyone sees this please send me a savefile (if you can).

I didn't think to keep a savefile, but if I get bored, I might jump around a lot and see if I can get it to happen again.

[pampl]

I've just finished the second laby level so I now consider myself something of an expert on them *puffs up chest* The first one started out fully mapped; I didn't bother keeping the save file because I thought that was a feature. No opinion on the difficulty one way or the other. It was definitely a fun change of pace.

edit: Just got a 3rd one and it was fully mapped with all objects shown again. I'll put my save on trac once trac starts working again.

edit2: ok, trying to load a labyrinth level that's been fully mapped apparently plops you into town. Weird

edit3: just got a 4th one (!) and it wasn't mapped but it didn't have any stairs, either. Saving and loading plopped me into town again too.

[d_m]

I've just finished the second laby level so I now consider myself something of an expert on them *puffs up chest* The first one started out fully mapped; I didn't bother keeping the save file because I thought that was a feature. No opinion on the difficulty one way or the other. It was definitely a fun change of pace.

edit: Just got a 3rd one and it was fully mapped with all objects shown again. I'll put my save on trac once trac starts working again.

edit2: ok, trying to load a labyrinth level that's been fully mapped apparently plops you into town. Weird

edit3: just got a 4th one (!) and it wasn't mapped but it didn't have any stairs, either. Saving and loading plopped me into town again too.

Huh, sounds like it still has some bugs :P

The basic idea is that shallow labyrinths will start out mapped (to make them less difficult)... deeper labyrinths will possibly be unmapped, unlit and have perma-walls (each of these increases the chances of good treasure being in the level).

The stairs issue is fixed in current nightlies... there was a logic error that mean that often you wouldn't have one kind of stairs. But that save bug is really strange... I hadn't seen it. Does this mean that if you save/quit and reload on a labyrinth you end up in town again?

Thanks the report!

[pampl]

Huh, sounds like it still has some bugs :P

The basic idea is that shallow labyrinths will start out mapped (to make them less difficult)... deeper labyrinths will possibly be unmapped, unlit and have perma-walls (each of these increases the chances of good treasure being in the level).

The stairs issue is fixed in current nightlies... there was a logic error that mean that often you wouldn't have one kind of stairs. But that save bug is really strange... I hadn't seen it. Does this mean that if you save/quit and reload on a labyrinth you end up in town again?

Thanks the report!

2nd graf:Ah OK, that makes sense now
3rd graf:Yep. This is in angband-raff3f99f7a, the january 30th build.
4th graf:No problem, thanks for the new level type

[PowerDiver]

Huh, sounds like it still has some bugs :P

The basic idea is that shallow labyrinths will start out mapped (to make them less difficult)... deeper labyrinths will possibly be unmapped, unlit and have perma-walls (each of these increases the chances of good treasure being in the level).

The stairs issue is fixed in current nightlies... there was a logic error that mean that often you wouldn't have one kind of stairs. But that save bug is really strange... I hadn't seen it. Does this mean that if you save/quit and reload on a labyrinth you end up in town again?

Thanks the report!

Someone put all sorts of bad stuff into rd_dungeon. It is possible that ending up in town reloading a labyrinth is because

* Note that the size of the dungeon is now hard-coded to
* DUNGEON_HGT by DUNGEON_WID, and any dungeon with another
* size will be silently discarded by this routine.

The code for rd_dungeon in generate.c currently discards the town if you save/reload in town. Don't drop anything you want to pick up again!

I added a check for depth > 0, and put in a debugging printf because silent changes are terrible for a dev project, but really this whole block should be removed. IMO all of the mods reading values in load.c need to be excised. I don't know what that note does, but I never saw it and I checked for logs and the char dump as well.

if ((depth > 0) && ((ymax != DUNGEON_HGT) || (xmax != DUNGEON_WID)))
{
printf("bad dungeon hgt %d vs %d, wid %d vs %d\n", ymax, DUNGEON_HGT, xmax, DUNGEON_WID);
/* XXX XXX XXX */
note(format("Ignoring illegal dungeon size (%d,%d).", ymax, xmax));
return (0);
}

[d_m]

I added a check for depth > 0, and put in a debugging printf because silent changes are terrible for a dev project, but really this whole block should be removed. IMO all of the mods reading values in load.c need to be excised. I don't know what that note does, but I never saw it and I checked for logs and the char dump as well.

Thanks! You're right, that block of code is the culprit, and is clearly unneeded/wrong at this point. I think the bug is the result of drift elsewhere in the code.

Anyway, this is fixed in staging now and will (hopefully) go to master soon.

[Philip]

I have an idea for labyrinths. They could start around dlevel 30 and have only two stairs, both far away from the player and next to each other. There could be a message: "A chill goes down your spine as you realize you will have to fight your way to safety." or something. You would not be able to teleport and the loot would be 20 or so levels OOD always generated excellent but the monsters would be similarly OOD. Teleport level or deep descent is allowed.
EDIT: Hint about posting. Always copy the whole message before posting or the system will eat your post without a way to recover it. The original post was longer and more obvious but oook logged me out meanwhile.