Competition 146

[bron]

I tried this and it is still "Fiddled save file" [...] also tried Bron's zipped savefile above with no luck

My savefile is in a different format: evidently the PC executable is different from the source version.

I've looked into this "Fiddled save file" problem, and the issue is that the game savefile records the time that the savefile was created, and then when you start the game and read the file, it compares that internally saved time against the time that the filesystem reports as the last time the file was changed, aborting with the Fiddled message if they aren't nearly equal. I can change this in the source version, but the only way I see around this in the pre-built executable is to start the game as a wizard ("-w" option on startup). To do that, you need to add a line with your user id to the lib/files/wizards file.

[chris]

Thanks. Was there a reason the competition character was rolled with such bad starting stats? You can easily roll an 18/81 starting Int for a H/E Mage.

[PowerWyrm]

I tried this and it is still "Fiddled save file".

How are people playing this comp? I also tried Bron's zipped savefile above with no luck

EDIT: You know ... never mind. I tried playing a new character and the UI is just too painful to use. Worst was when Grip approached me not quite diagonally but such that I had no way to target him with a magic missile. Did I really used to play this game?

I downloaded the whole directory and it worked... But you probably had to do it a soon as it was uploaded, because the game checks for the savefile timestamp.

Concerning the UI, it's almost unplayable because of all the bullshit -more- messages. Targeting isn't that bad if you remember to stay in corridors and buy a truckload of phase door scrolls.

[PowerWyrm]

Thanks. Was there a reason the competition character was rolled with such bad starting stats? You can easily roll an 18/81 starting Int for a H/E Mage.

No idea, but it makes the character unplayable. In this version, I don't think there are stat rings, and playing with 18/20 INT as mage is simply nearly impossible. I've spent many many hours until now playing my latest Frog incarnation as conservatively as possible, staying around 1k at level 27, using the pityful amount of SP killing monsters one by one (there's no way you even can take on a pack of 4-5 orcs with the mana you have; and anything that's remotely threatening will kill you). Took me two weeks to accumulate enough funds to buy an INT pot from BM which, with a +2 INT cap, allowed me to get 18/70 INT and a less pathetic mana pool. Maybe I'll try to dive to 1500 to quickly grab some stat pots, but I fear such character has low chances to stay alive at that depth...

[bron]

Maybe I'll try to dive to 1500 to quickly grab some stat pots

Note that according to the source, potions of Intellegence and WIsdom are level thrity-*two* (32) items. Str, Dex, and Con potions are level 30. One the other hand, the level of an item drop is the same as the dungeon level, regardless of the monster dropping it (unlike current Vanilla, which uses the average of the monster level and the dungeon level).

[PowerWyrm]

Note that according to the source, potions of Intellegence and WIsdom are level thrity-*two* (32) items. Str, Dex, and Con potions are level 30. One the other hand, the level of an item drop is the same as the dungeon level, regardless of the monster dropping it (unlike current Vanilla, which uses the average of the monster level and the dungeon level).

Facepalm... no wonder why I didn't find a single INT pot yet, though the CON of that char is now 18/58. Time to push to 1600 then...

By the way, stat rings exist in the version, as I now find them (their base depth must be 1500 then). However, the enchantment system of FK is so that base level items are almost always +1. Oh, and maximize is off, of course, so every stat caps at 18/100. I really don't see how a HE mage can max both INT and CON in this version, especially without the proper artifacts...

[Derakon]

I really don't see how a HE mage can max both INT and CON in this version, especially without the proper artifacts...

They may not be able to, but on the other hand, they get Globe of Invulnerability in Tenser's. Frog-knows mages were battle mages; gear up, cast your buffs, and wade into battle.

[bron]

Here is the next (and hopefully last) set of changes to frog-knows. I put back in some rudimentary POSIX compliant signal handling, fixed one bug (it would occasionally attempt to close a NULL filepointer), and added some code to write a savefile every time the character changes levels. This last is based on fear of the code aborting. I consider this code to be playable (at least to the extent that frog-knows can be considered playable). However, I do not fault anyone who chooses not to subject themselves to the painful experience of actually trying to play it.

The attached tar file is a delta from the previous set. You'll need to download the original source, untar my previous set (of three) files over the top of that, and then untar this one over the top of that. I'm happy to (try to) answer any questions, but note that I know nothing about PC's or Mac's, so if you're trying to port to those platforms, I may not be of any use.

[PowerWyrm]

Can't post latest dump because the ladder reads current xp instead of max xp and rejects the dump because my char is drained

[Derakon]

Can't post latest dump because the ladder reads current xp instead of max xp and rejects the dump because my char is drained

Hand-edit the dump text to fix it? I mean sure, it's technically misleading but who really cares?

[Nick]

Hand-edit the dump text to fix it? I mean sure, it's technically misleading but who really cares?

I agree. This comp is challenging enough

[PowerWyrm]

Hand-edit the dump text to fix it? I mean sure, it's technically misleading but who really cares?

Forget it... This week-end in France was the moment where we went from summer time to winter time (-1 hour) and this morning the game refused to start with a "fiddled savefile" message. I suppose this is because the time is saved in the file and doesn't correspond anymore. This is bullshit. I'm not restarting this again after having spent all that time leveling this char.

[PowerWyrm]

Forget it... This week-end in France was the moment where we went from summer time to winter time (-1 hour) and this morning the game refused to start with a "fiddled savefile" message. I suppose this is because the time is saved in the file and doesn't correspond anymore. This is bullshit. I'm not restarting this again after having spent all that time leveling this char.

I managed to re-create almost identically this character with the wizard commands and the last character dump I made, except for the items that were stored in the home (couldn't remember what was in there). I'll restart from this point.

[bron]

So, now that this comp is over, I thought I'd pontificate on what I see as the point of it: what felt like the most important improvements that are in the current versions as compared to frog-knows. Somewhat remarkably (to me at least),
there were only a handful of things that I personally thought made the game significantly worse to play that current Vanilla, and most of them would be easy to fix. No doubt others would have a different list.

So, these are the main things I missed:
1) Targeting. You have to waste several turns trying to "line up" with the enemy, giving them a number of free actions.
2) No way to cancel a "recall" once you read the scroll.
3) No way to turn off haggling in the stores.
4) Missiles do not stack even if identical, e.g. (+0,+0) arrows.
5) Wands and Rods do not stack, making them too expensive in terms of inventory space.
6) No warning message at % injured.
7) Too many, and too verbose, messages.
8) Lanterns and the Phial only have radius one light, not radius two. And a Helm of Light does not add to the light radius.
9) No 'I'nspect command to tell you the properties of items after they are identified.

Now, I'm not going to say that there aren't a thousand other things that I like better about current Vanilla (like say, the way speed is handled), but these are the things that IMHO made frog-knows particularly annoying and frustrating to play.

The comp character was unnecessarily weak (it could have started with a higher IQ which would mean more SP), and this certainly colors one's perception of the game as being too hard.

[Nick]

Competition 146 is now indeed over; congratulations to PowerWyrm for winning, and to bron for a decent attempt - no game winners in this silly game.