Next competition

[HugoVirtuoso]

Or we could have a Sil 1.3 compo!

[bron]

As 184 is winding down, I thought I'd post my thoughts about a competition I'd like to see some day. Most competitions use "speed" as the ranking criterion for winners. I don't like this, both because I personally usually play slow, and because I think there are many other varieties of difficulty that are worth exploring. Also, I find that far too many competitions (in Vanilla especially) come down to who found a good artefact the soonest. Playing without artefacts doesn't completely eliminate this problem, since some of the ego items can be pretty good, but it does IMO substantially mitigate it, since the effects of non-artefact items are usually a lot less.

So here is what I propose: A sil competition, with no artefacts, where all levels of winning are counted as the same (i.e. getting out with one sil is just as good as killing Morgoth and getting out with all three). The ranking criterion for winners is the race/class used. For simplicity, I'd propose just using the ordering as presented in the startup menus, e.g. any level of win by a Nagrim Belegost is better than any level of win by a Naugrim Nogrod, as well as better than any level of win by any Sindar or any Noldor. Players are free to create any character they want as long as the "no artefacts" birth oprion is used.

I think it would create an interesting tension: you could spend the whole time going for the win with an Edain Hador character, but you might well not succeed in time. Ot you could play it safer with a more powerful race, but then other people might pass you. Also, a player might run multiple entries: start with a Noldor and work down the list to see how far you can go. I think this is a good thing, as the competition could (potentially at least) hold your interest for a longer time and for multiple characters.

The main drawback from my point of view is that I wouldn't win .

[PowerWyrm]

... or do an almost unwinnable comp, so the winner would be someone who survives farthest. ToME lost soul? Vanilla with 50 levels ironman artifactless elf priest?

[Derakon]

... or do an almost unwinnable comp, so the winner would be someone who survives farthest. ToME lost soul? Vanilla with 50 levels ironman artifactless elf priest?

Do a Vanilla competition with the skip-levels setting set to 10, so there's only 10 dungeon levels in the game.

[fizzix]

Do a Vanilla competition with the skip-levels setting set to 10, so there's only 10 dungeon levels in the game.

forced descent too? I think 20 levels forced descent might be winnable, you would need significant luck. 10 levels forced descent is probably impossible to the point of not being fun. I could be wrong though, I haven't tried it.

I believe, if I coded everything properly, regardless of how many levels you set, Sauron should appear on the second to last level. So if it's 10 levels, Sauron is on 9.

[debo]

I'm strongly inclined to do a Halls of Mist competition next as a tribute to David Bowie.

[Derakon]

forced descent too? I think 20 levels forced descent might be winnable, you would need significant luck. 10 levels forced descent is probably impossible to the point of not being fun. I could be wrong though, I haven't tried it.

Forced descent is almost certainly excessive; players would have to spend a lot of time waiting around for new monsters to spawn to get the items they need, which doesn't sound fun. But definitely turn off connected stairs! The game would be a series of raids into levels you probably aren't prepared for.

...mm, and maybe do it with a warrior too, so you're operating blind for most of the game.

[PowerWyrm]

I believe, if I coded everything properly, regardless of how many levels you set, Sauron should appear on the second to last level. So if it's 10 levels, Sauron is on 9.

Setting a step of 10 levels will actually generate 11 levels: 10-90, 99, 100. In fact, you will always generate n+1 levels unless n is the default value n=1.

[PowerWyrm]

Do a Vanilla competition with the skip-levels setting set to 10, so there's only 10 dungeon levels in the game.

Add force descent for a real challenge

[PowerWyrm]

10 levels forced descent is probably impossible to the point of not being fun. I could be wrong though, I haven't tried it.

It would still be winnable, but would involve massive amount of scumming. You would probably have to farm townies for starting cash pool so you can survive the first trip to 500ft, then rest for long periods to respawn monsters for drops, be lucky to find black oozes and farm them for more drops, and so on...

[fizzix]

It would still be winnable, but would involve massive amount of scumming. You would probably have to farm townies for starting cash pool so you can survive the first trip to 500ft, then rest for long periods to respawn monsters for drops, be lucky to find black oozes and farm them for more drops, and so on...

Bah. That sounds like no fun.

[Pete Mack]

Going to 500' at cl 1 is perfectly doable. Sure you will lose a lot of characters, but one of them will eventually find a dark elf before dying and advance to level 6 immediately, or get lucky with a baby dragon and do even better.* That's how Lost Soul works in other variants...except there you are likelier to find a mumak and advance to level 27. All you REALLY need is Hero/Chant/Berserk, ?Phase, and a bow or a sling, or just a big stack of oil for 3d4 burn damage. You don't need recall, because going back to town is trivial.

It would still be winnable, but would involve massive amount of scumming. You would probably have to farm townies for starting cash pool so you can survive the first trip to 500ft, then rest for long periods to respawn monsters for drops, be lucky to find black oozes and farm them for more drops, and so on...

* Yes that is possible. I've done it in Quickband, but it does take luck.

[Nick]

I'm strongly inclined to do a Halls of Mist competition next as a tribute to David Bowie.

Great idea.

As for the reduced levels idea, comp 181 was 50 reduced-size levels with forced descent. If you want an unwinnable comp, FA ironman thrall Petty-Dwarf Druid should do it

[bron]

or do an almost unwinnable comp, so the winner would be someone who survives farthest

While I like the concept, I think some of the suggestions are simply too hard (and clearly some of them were meant in jest). If you don't like my Sil suggestion (where the player gets to pick their level of "hard"), an example of an extremely difficult feat, and yet still (barely) winnable, is a Vanilla, no-artefacts, iron-man, Half-Troll Paladin, who descends on turn 1 with just one torch and one ration of food. I have won with such a character before (admittedly, not on the 4.x series), so I know it can be done, but it is very challenging.

[fizzix]

While I like the concept, I think some of the suggestions are simply too hard (and clearly some of them were meant in jest). If you don't like my Sil suggestion (where the player gets to pick their level of "hard"), an example of an extremely difficult feat, and yet still (barely) winnable, is a Vanilla, no-artefacts, iron-man, Half-Troll Paladin, who descends on turn 1 with just one torch and one ration of food. I have won with such a character before (admittedly, not on the 4.x series), so I know it can be done, but it is very challenging.

A lot of that comes down to whether you find a bunch of food on one of the early floors. iron-man trolls are the only class where starvation is an issue.

On the other hand, it could make us think of whether we should make the hunger clock an actual thing or chuck it altogether.