YAWP egoless ironman high-elf mage

[PowerDiver]

Some general description of egoless play is here.

My game was based off of Vanila 3.1.2 r2041 also with a mod to mushroom frequencies.

I played it almost as a pure mage. I squelched weapons and launchers and ammo from the start. I used oil for throwing, and killed a few monsters barehanded or with a shovel, usually by accident. The change to halve mana costs for damage spells means that it is possible for mages to kill using magic rather than melee or bows, and that is obviously a big deal playing egoless

I did not do anything I considered to be abuse. No LOS tricks or ASCs or anything like that. I consider rune of protection and door creation to be abusive, so I squelched MB7 and never learned any spells in it. I've been arguing for a while that mage casters should not get the satisfy hunger spell, so I never learned that either. I used mage CLW spell, but I devoted a slot to mushrooms of purging that I could have used to carry !CLW etc which I think evens it out. I used two clone monster wands I found on swamp wyrms until they blew up on recharge, but I have decided that is equivalent to killing explosions so I am happy with it.

Here is the winner dump.

I got a bit lucky. The power DSM at DL56 was nice, but much less important than one might think. The real luck was with CON potions and gain-one-lose-one not costing much CON. Also luckily, I guess, I did not find -dObj early. I had to search more, fought more spawned monsters, and had more exp than I was used to having at each depth. I had many more hp than other egoless chars I've played at similar depths and that saved me from carelessness more than once.

[Nick]

This is really, really impressive. Now can the madness stop?

[bron]

Most excellent! My congratulations! I think the advantage of the PDSM was probably the rConf, and the reduced amount of blindness due to rDark. But I agree that those effects are not the difference between winning and losing, and you could have overcome them if need be.

Huzzah! Three cheers! And all that sorta stuff!

[Derakon]

RIP Angband
1990 - 2010

Final words: "Surely they won't triple-egoless in two weeks..."

[Timo Pietilä]

Here is the winner dump.

Congrats. That's an achievement.

Now how can we make this impossible without making game impossible to mere mortals?

[PowerDiver]

Now how can we make this impossible without making game impossible to mere mortals?

It might be as simple as removing SI from high-elves. Whether that is something one would want to do is another question.

[Derakon]

That might make mage egoless wins impossible, but what about the dwarf priest?

The only idea I have for making this impossible (or at least less feasible) would basically render all ironman games impossible: rejiggering the game to increase the stakes the longer you stay in the dungeon. As you spend more time in the dungeon without returning to town, the monsters get stronger, more numerous, and more aggressive, but the loot they drop also increases in value. This could be done as simply as just increasing your effective dungeon level by 1 every 1000 turns. Naturally in an ironman game you'd rapidly outpace your ability to survive. That said I think it'd be a neat mechanic regardless.

[bron]

how can we make this impossible

Why do you want to?

[bron]

Now can the madness stop?

No, no .. you must *embrace* the madness!! <cackles insanely>

[Magnate]

Why do you want to?

My thoughts exactly. High elves are *meant* to be an easier class, partly because of the SI, and it's not as if many players could repeat many of Eddie's achievements anyway.

I'm all for making the game more challenging to offset the results of two years of diver-friendly and tactician-friendly development, but I see no reason to adopt any specific goal like this.

[Psi]

Wow. That's about all I can manage. Incredible stuff.

[LostTemplar]

RIP Angband
1990 - 2010

Final words: "Surely they won't triple-egoless in two weeks..."

While egoless is impressive challenge, equipment restriction is not only way to add challenge to this game, there are still many possible challenges to be done in the future. (No devices, probably even no scrolls warrior is the first one, I think about)

[Timo Pietilä]

My thoughts exactly. High elves are *meant* to be an easier class, partly because of the SI, and it's not as if many players could repeat many of Eddie's achievements anyway.

I'm all for making the game more challenging to offset the results of two years of diver-friendly and tactician-friendly development, but I see no reason to adopt any specific goal like this.

Because it feels very strongly wrong that someone is able to win ironman game without any ego or artifact help. Even winning just ironman should be an achievement, this went like 100 time more challenging and still was possible. Is that partly because of the mage offensive spell boosts? I need to try mage sometime soon, maybe that change was overdone.

[Derakon]

Judging from my recent mage, just because you can rely on spells for damage doesn't mean you should. Spell damage is very consistent and reliable, but in my experience once you get past 2000' or so you never have enough mana to be able to kill even a single big target without having to retreat and rest, or else rely on something else (melee, bows, wands, etc.) for additional damage. Groups can usually be taken down fairly easily because the mage's most mana-efficient damage sources (meteor storm and rift) also hit groups, but if you want to kill a unique or a greater demon, you'd better have an alternate strategy up your sleeve.

Note that Eddie said he relied heavily on wands for killing Morgoth. The only advantage the mage has for that damage source is a good recharging spell; otherwise anyone could pull that strategy.

[PowerDiver]

Note that Eddie said he relied heavily on wands for killing Morgoth. The only advantage the mage has for that damage source is a good recharging spell; otherwise anyone could pull that strategy.

There was a fairly recent change to increase damage with device skill. Mages do more damage with devices than other classes because they have better device skill. That's not make-or-break, but it is an advantage.