ivanilla experience

[fizzix]

Got the most recent version with fracblows. and happily don't have to merge my vault changes on my own.

Already noticed some funky behavior with LoS detection. I often find secret doors in areas that I actually can't see. I think LoS detection should only work if the area is lit.

[fizzix]

Nice, I will be grabbing your vault & stuff changes and incorporating them into iVanilla. As soon as get the time ... =P

Btw, regarding pseudo-id, I'm playing a ranger and it having the worst pseudo-id at start really showed. Please report on early game pseudo id rates. The 3rd I-value in p_class is the initial chance_in(x) value, ranger has the suckiest and definitely felt for this char that it was too sucky... Did you find the early priest game okay with pseudo-id?

Hmm, I'm not sure my play style will be any help here. I generally wield-test items and armor, and restart if I hit a morgul blade early.

[ewert]

Nice, I will be grabbing your vault & stuff changes and incorporating them into iVanilla. As soon as get the time ... =P

Btw, regarding pseudo-id, I'm playing a ranger and it having the worst pseudo-id at start really showed. Please report on early game pseudo id rates. The 3rd I-value in p_class is the initial chance_in(x) value, ranger has the suckiest and definitely felt for this char that it was too sucky... Did you find the early priest game okay with pseudo-id?

[fizzix]

What if the items were in a chest-type container such as "a dirt mound" that is undetectable by dTreasure and cannot be picked up, revealed only by LOS.

sure, but then you're way beyond simple changes. Dreads have the same field of vision as reavers, and reavers let out the rest of the graveyard. Reavers also move faster. Dreads picking up items is a concern but really not that big of a one in this case. They certainly aren't going to be able to pick up all the items in the pit. And if you can lure away a dread or a ghost and pick it off to get an item. Well, honestly, that's kind of a fun mechanic.

[buzzkill]

What if the items were in a chest-type container such as "a dirt mound" that is undetectable by dTreasure and cannot be picked up, revealed only by LOS.

[fizzix]

You could bury the items, though I'm not quite sure how.

Dreads already have this problem in vaults. If you're careful you can get a lot of items out of a vault by 'proper use' of dreads. Honestly, the solution lies more in not giving pass wall monsters the ability to pick up items. Or at least, not allowing monsters to pick up items of some power level relative to their own.

[buzzkill]

You could bury the items, though I'm not quite sure how.

[fizzix]

...plus the Dreads will pick all the stuff up and bring it to you.

good point...If I wanted to be anal about it, I'd place all the items under drujes, deathmolds and quylthulgs. That's too much work though.

[Nick]

I don't think there should be any need to put more items in graveyards, because actually killing the monsters will give you lots of drops anyway.

...plus the Dreads will pick all the stuff up and bring it to you.

[fizzix]

I added items to the nests now. There should be on average 3 items in jelly pits, 10 items in animal pits and 20 items in graveyards. Every item has a 1/3 chance to be good.

I don't think there should be any need to put more items in graveyards, because actually killing the monsters will give you lots of drops anyway. I'm not sure this is enough items in zoos though...

It's a start at least.

[fizzix]

Btw, as you are looking at the pits/vaults stuff, did you get around to putting in something nice in zoos, jelly pits and graveyards yet? =) Maybe a guaranteed OoD great item? =P

No, I may get to it tonight though...

I was thinking of just a very simple probabilistic approach of items being created and placed randomly in the vault. This is the easiest approach because vaults are filled in square by square. At each point, also determine if there is an item there, make it OoD, and maybe make it good.

the only trick is how to do this introducing as few new constants as possible.

Graveyards will have lots of goodies because they are difficult to clear.

[ewert]

Btw, as you are looking at the pits/vaults stuff, did you get around to putting in something nice in zoos, jelly pits and graveyards yet? =) Maybe a guaranteed OoD great item? =P

[ewert]

Yeah well I am bit on the side of "items from monster drops or dangerrooms", so my opinion is bit skewed on normal floor items and thus maybe a bit against "exploration when level feeling says something good is somewhere".

I guess a midly granulated delayed item feeling could be a good compromise. Have both the "there's some wicked shiznitz somewhere" and "I think there's something nice somewhere".

[fizzix]

Or we could make pits be level dependant like vaults, so that orc pits just are not there after dlvl 60 or so maybe. Or ... we could just leave it be, and orc pits will be "bummer". :P I mean people clear troll pits too even in the end, right? Atleast I do. Everything else retains their danger levels due to high end monsters being created as well.

I have no problem with this. If I'm hunting stat gain potions I'm clearing orc/giant/troll pits. If I'm not, I avoid them. With the new drop values, they just are not worth it.

Zoos are never worth it, neither are jelly pits. Zoos can be dangerous though.

I guess we'll have to disagree on level feelings. I certainly think that the 'good item here' should be tripped a lot more common than what you are suggesting. I recommend using the power ratings and comparing that on a per-level basis for weapons.

[ewert]

Or we could make pits be level dependant like vaults, so that orc pits just are not there after dlvl 60 or so maybe. Or ... we could just leave it be, and orc pits will be "bummer". :P I mean people clear troll pits too even in the end, right? Atleast I do. Everything else retains their danger levels due to high end monsters being created as well.

So, is there ANY other matter than orc pits that make a pit/vault not a "tough or interesting room" in the end game?

I can't comment much on the exploration part, as I never relied on the feeling before and never thus got into any sort of "lets go explore this level, yay!" Only superbs made me want to search for the pit/vault, or if none present maybe bump into interesting item before exploring most of the level to find the pit/vault. Hunting uniques was a pain ... So those two are done with this feeling type.

I can see the lure of exploration for some people who like to find on-floor items (I rather kill kill kill), so I guess am gonna steal npp-style delayed feeling and make an item/artifact sensor out of it. It will have pretty steep requirement to trigger an item feeling (artifact, top 3 weapon, extremely rare items or markedly out of depth item).

As for finer info on dangerroom, I thought about it in the initial discussion, and I am myself against it. Knowledge that there is something is enough to make you want to check it out. If you KNOW what it is, you will ignore those you do not like, and that is IMHO too much information.