ivanilla experience

[fizzix]

It is a simple pit+ / unique check. Dangerroom checks for 0/1, unique adds +2 (2 or 3). From my testing it seems to be working (though I had missed non-out-of-depth uniques, not sure if you have that as it was a fix later on). I might probably steal npp-style "delayed" feeling for artifacts or artifact-quality high end items. But tbh ... I actually don't see the need for that.

Ok, that's what I gathered. I think there needs to be some finer granularity in this. Basically these are the things that might be interest on a level and the range where they are interesting.

I think we both agree that two axes need to be used. Let's assume your two axes of 'dangerroom' and 'unique/OoD monster/(artifact?)'. If dangerroom is boolean then it needs to not make orc pits interesting at dlevel 80. Ideally I'd prefer it to distinguish somewhat between pit/vault/mulitple vaults/greater vault although it's possible that this granularity can be entirely placed on the second axis.

For the Unique/OoD monster/artifact/OoD item axis, finer granularity is needed. Essentially this is your 'do I want to explore this level' rating. OoD items and artifacts need to boost this way up. A single artifact on the level should make it high, multiple artifacts should make it very high. Obviously, vaults will increase this rating greatly. Not putting the artifacts or items in really defeats the purpose of the whole rating system, because that's the prime motivation for searching a level! If you get an interesting feeling, you should want to figure out what caused it.

I may try a warrior character with the more recent changes. Although, I still haven't figured out a way to nicely merge my vault changes with yours...

[ewert]

Regarding gold drops, I thought about it and really a linear progression is not that bad, because well 50 is 5 times 10 and 100 is just two times 50, so a linear progression is in itself of course relatively nonlinear ... Avg gold drops are now testing with about five times that of Vanilla. Digged gold is now triple the "level", since it is now a linear formula though that is a solid triple the value straight up.

Also changed smite to average 210 versus evil and 10 mana cost, which is about +20% dmg per spell and +20% manacost per damage compared to Orb of Draining.

[ewert]

Great, thanks for feedback first off, bought a new house and all that shazz so haven't had much time to playtest yet myself, only pre-statgain parts.

No Selling
-----------
This worked well. The amount of stuff I purchased in town was small. I was playing a priest to test out other changes, so I didn't need to purchase healing, and that's the major speed bump. I would push for gold drops to be a bit higher and to really bump up the amount of gold you get from digging. Make that be an option (although not at dlevel 1)

Yeah I am thinking of remaking the formula, sort of a ... can't remember which sort of formula, but the graphic is "slow start, steep middle, slow end" type so that 1-20 its about similar to now, then starts to increase strongly to maybe 50-60, and finally slowly increases till 100. That is a great idea of making digging drops higher, definitely will do that!

unlimited home.
---------------
I made as much use of it as possible by never throwing out a single artifact. Although, I would've been better served by a museum because I sure as hell wasn't going to use all these artifacts. The unlimited home makes for a different play style and I'm not sure if I like it yet or not...I encourage other people to try it.

For randarts games for me I don't think I will ever play without it. But that is the beauty of options.

new level feelings
-----------------
I'm not sure these are any bit improved over the current ones, especially in the later depth. Looking through the code I thought it was buggy as it didn't seem you could ever get over 1. The idea is right, but I think the execution didn't work correctly. Although, I'll reserve more details until I find out if it was buggy or not.

It is a simple pit+ / unique check. Dangerroom checks for 0/1, unique adds +2 (2 or 3). From my testing it seems to be working (though I had missed non-out-of-depth uniques, not sure if you have that as it was a fix later on). I might probably steal npp-style "delayed" feeling for artifacts or artifact-quality high end items. But tbh ... I actually don't see the need for that.

clairvoyence does not detect items
---------------------------------
I liked this a lot. It affects priests more than anyone else. It's possible that the enlightenment potion should reveal items also. I wouldn't mind that. But I appreciated that the spell no longer did.

I am personally squelching detect treasure stuff at the moment, and trying purely no item detection style games. I'm currently of the mind of not having even the potions have it. Mapping whole level and lighting it is powerful. But it is also tedium removing in the endgame (especially the lighting part), so I feel it needs to be common enough in the end, so high availability of enlightenment potions = good. I might even make !enlight deeper items now, and increase their appearance rate so they will be more common while not making early game not so dangerous.

smite replaces annihilation
-------------------------
As mentioned in the chardump, I thought it was too powerful. Though in retrospect, it's actually not all that bad. The bigger problem is some monsters not having push past. I might bump up the mana cost a bit. 12-15 seems about right.

Don't worry, I will revisit it soon. A minor 15% or so decrease in dmg, and I will make it slightly less mana efficient than OoD (you pay for higher dmg/rnd). 220avg/12 maybe ...

I think I got all the major changes. This was before ewert's LoS trap detection, so I didn't test that. I'll add more if I think of them.

Thanks.

[fizzix]

So I played a couple games with ewert's ivanilla, and my own vault changes. The chardump is here: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=10688

First my changes.

I modified the vaults file to make GVs more common later in the dungeon and added a new class of vault, the medium vault. I think the changes were good overall, but perhaps not enough. I really liked the medium vault addition. It made a couple levels more interesting. I think though, vault frequency overall might need to be increased even more.

Also GVs are skewed to the later end of the dungeon, but I'm thinking they should be more probable at dlevel 80 or so. Something like LVs dominate 30-55, medium 55-80 and GV 80 or so. Maybe I'll come up with a more organic calculation for it.

Now for the ivanilla changes (and there are a lot)

No Selling
-----------
This worked well. The amount of stuff I purchased in town was small. I was playing a priest to test out other changes, so I didn't need to purchase healing, and that's the major speed bump. I would push for gold drops to be a bit higher and to really bump up the amount of gold you get from digging. Make that be an option (although not at dlevel 1)

unlimited home.
---------------
I made as much use of it as possible by never throwing out a single artifact. Although, I would've been better served by a museum because I sure as hell wasn't going to use all these artifacts. The unlimited home makes for a different play style and I'm not sure if I like it yet or not...I encourage other people to try it.

new level feelings
-----------------
I'm not sure these are any bit improved over the current ones, especially in the later depth. Looking through the code I thought it was buggy as it didn't seem you could ever get over 1. The idea is right, but I think the execution didn't work correctly. Although, I'll reserve more details until I find out if it was buggy or not.

clairvoyence does not detect items
---------------------------------
I liked this a lot. It affects priests more than anyone else. It's possible that the enlightenment potion should reveal items also. I wouldn't mind that. But I appreciated that the spell no longer did.

smite replaces annihilation
-------------------------
As mentioned in the chardump, I thought it was too powerful. Though in retrospect, it's actually not all that bad. The bigger problem is some monsters not having push past. I might bump up the mana cost a bit. 12-15 seems about right.

I think I got all the major changes. This was before ewert's LoS trap detection, so I didn't test that. I'll add more if I think of them.