Randart luck :)

[Siggesigge]

The Katana 'Ivrion' (5d5) (+21,+19) [+2]
----------------------------------------
+11 constitution, speed.
+55% to searching.
Slays undead.
*Slays* dragons, demons.
Branded with acid, lightning, flames, frost, venom.
Provides resistance to acid, fear, light, dark, sound, nexus.
Cannot be harmed by acid, electricity, fire, cold.
Sustains wisdom, charisma.
Grants the ability to see invisible things.

+11 con!? That's crazy! Anybody care to enlighten me as to how the pval gets generated for stat boosts, and what the odds are for ending up with +11? I'm unfortunately not skilled enough in code h4xx0ring to look it up myself.

[Zikke]

+11 CON is insane. +11 attack speed would be the best weapon ever.

[Nick]

Time for multiple pvals?

[Estie]

I believe he's saying he'd like a way to generate the artifact spoilers without having to commit suicide, but only once he's won.

Thats right. However, retiring does the trick - you get the same option after you do so.

[Tiburon Silverflame]

Note, tho, that +11 Con *looks* impressive, but a lot of it will probably be wasted. The killer aspects on that katana are the speed boost, the extra damage dice, and the total combination of slays/brands...VERY few critters will NOT take significant extra damage.

[Magnate]

Time for multiple pvals?

http://trac.rephial.org/ticket/571. I'm looking forward to tweaking the randart generator once that's implemented ...

@zikke: blows/might/shots are limited to +3

@siggesigge: when the randart generator picks a pval-dependent attribute, there is a one-in-(pval*x) chance of increasing the pval by one, where x is 1 unless blows/might/shots are present. The initial pval is set using 1d4, so the chances of getting +11 are at most 1 / (10x9x8x7x6x5x4), i.e. 0.000165%, and that's without factoring in the chances of picking pval-dependent stuff in the first place. Speed is treated differently though, with a higher initial pval, so +11 isn't quite so uncommon if speed is present.

[Derakon]

Is there any special logic currently for adding other pval-dependent values if speed has already been added to the randart?

[Magnate]

Is there any special logic currently for adding other pval-dependent values if speed has already been added to the randart?

The special-casing for speed is only for the initial pval (and I haven't checked recently to see if this survived the bitflag rewrite at r1948). When any new pval-dependent attribute is added to a randart, the power rating is not only increased by the value of that attribute, but there is also an extra power term for multiple pval attributes, which tops out at +24 (e.g. four attributes with a +6 pval, six with +4, two with +12 etc.). So if +11 speed was chosen first (which is most likely), once any other pval-dependent attribute was added, no further ones could be. (Searching and Charisma are exceptions to this rule, as their value is deemed to be zero.)

The highest non-speed pval I have ever seen is +10, which was INT and WIS IIRC - nice caster item.

[fizzix]

I would put tunneling as also a zero.

[Derakon]

I wouldn't. The difference between taking ten turns to clear a block of granite and taking two can occasionally be very significant. Every once in awhile you find yourself wanting to tunnel under pressure...

[Estie]

I would put tunneling as also a zero.

Depends. If constitution is 1 and searching zero, then tunneling should be zero rather than 1.

Edit: quoted wrong post, should have been Derakon´s.

[Magnate]

Depends. If constitution is 1 and searching zero, then tunneling should be zero rather than 1.

Edit: quoted wrong post, should have been Derakon´s.

The actual values are:

STR, DEX, CON, stealth: 1
INT, WIS: 0.75
CHR, infravision, tunnelling, searching: 0

Interestingly, speed is also rated at zero, so you could theoretically have +12 speed, STR, CON. (Speed has quite a high power rating in its own right, so it doesn't contribute to this additional term.)

I think it's probably worth putting tunnelling to 0.25 or thereabouts, based on Derakon's logic.

[Timo Pietilä]

Do you seriously expect to find the One Ring and Bladeturner in every winning game? Sure, they're the ultimate gear for their respective slots,

Actually they are not. They are, if your other gear is utter crap, but if you have found other Rings of Power, aggravation in The One is major drawback, and Bladeturner is heavy (50 lbs) with -8 to hit with almost nothing extra compared to ordinary PDSM and with worse activation.

I have found both and two cases of three I didn't use The One and the only case I found Bladeturner I didn't use it. I had no need for anything it had.

If something Bladeturner needs boost. For randarts I don't care if it gets overvalued as long as the item created based on it is rare.

[Timo Pietilä]

The actual values are:

STR, DEX, CON, stealth: 1
INT, WIS: 0.75
CHR, infravision, tunnelling, searching: 0

I think it's probably worth putting tunnelling to 0.25 or thereabouts, based on Derakon's logic.

Thing with tunneling is that high values have, well, high value, but with low values they don't have a value at all. Tunneling through GCV so fast that monsters inside don't have time to wake up is valuable.

Why is stealth valued higher than spellcasting stats? I would understand high stealth value if already awake monsters would not automatically know where you are but because they do stealth value isn't that big. More like 0.5 than 1.

It would be completely different situation if you could sneak past awake monsters that do not have LoS to you with high stealth. Then I would rate stealth very high indeed.

[Magnate]

Thing with tunneling is that high values have, well, high value, but with low values they don't have a value at all. Tunneling through GCV so fast that monsters inside don't have time to wake up is valuable.

True, but that's about the value of tunnelling per se, not about its importance in combination with other pval stuff.

Why is stealth valued higher than spellcasting stats? I would understand high stealth value if already awake monsters would not automatically know where you are but because they do stealth value isn't that big. More like 0.5 than 1.

It's possible to get perfect stealth, and with randarts this is more achievable. Perfect or near-perfect stealth (high 20s) is really stupendously useful, because so few monsters wake up that it doesn't matter that they know where you are.

In fact this is possible without any randarts at all:

+4 from Defender
+3 from armour of Elvenkind
+5 from Elven cloak of Aman/Stealth
+3 from shield of Elvenkind
+3 from boots of Stealth/Elvenkind

That's +18, which gives a hobbit or kobold rogue 28 stealth, which is 2 off perfect IIRC.