Finally!

[gglibertine]

For the first time ever, I found a Defender weapon at a level where I could actually use it. Whip (Defender) (1d3) (+5, +4) [+3] <+1>, dropped by a kobold on DL4. Sorted all my immediate needs and gave me a much-needed damage upgrade. Every other time I've found one, I've already been much lower and with a weapon that does much more damage, and I've already had most or all of the extra abilities.

I'm playing a dwarf paladin as usual, so all the better that it's lightweight and not bladed. Combined with some Gloves of Slaying (+5, +3) [1, +5] bought from the Black Market, I'm now diving deeper. Wish me luck!

[Estie]

Good luck!
And it is lightweight, too. A tulwar or such would do less damage. It being blunt type does not matter, though. It never has, for paladins; only priests used to be handicapped when using sharp weapons and that mechanic has been removed completely, I believe at the same time when the priest shop had its weapon inventory done away with.

[gglibertine]

Huh. It still says, "You feel more in tune with your weapon" and "You feel less in tune with your weapon", so I assumed it still made some difference. TIL!

[Nick]

Yep, priests and paladins now get a small to-hit and to-dam bonus from wielding blunt or blessed weapons.

[Sky]

awww, bless your heart, still impressed by a defender weapon.

fyi for paladins, start with 5 str 5 wis 5 dex 5 con, and do the first levels with a launcher, even a sling of power. then wait for orb, and mix orb and missiles. you can even run 2x escaping (currently only +4 spd but it used to be +8 spd) and just plink everything with missiles and ?phase. a ESP ego is still better than a high damage artifact dagger until you start gaining stats at DL30-40.

[RegalStar]

4.2 paladin doesn't have orb of draining.

[Estie]

I am confused. I was aware of blessed bonus, not of blunt. Did that change at the same time ?
Also, whos idea was that, paladins should get bonus with longswords if anything.

[backwardsEric]

Between 4.2.0 and 4.2.1, Nick added lib/gamedata/player_property.txt and it described "Blessed Fighter" as "You get improved melee with blessed or hafted weapons". In the game, the improved melee was only implemented for blessed weapons between 4.2.0 (which dropped the old behavior of penalizing pointy weapons) and 4.2.4. 4.2.5 changed the implementation to match that description. The default starting kit for paladins was not changed - a whip would be better than a main gauche.

[Estie]

Thanks Eric. I have to say, while I understand the desire for consistency, I have trouble imagining a paladin liking a whip. Whips, when used on humans, are commonly tools for torture or lust, rarely for combat, and both common uses are in opposition of paldinian ethics. Paladins are known for using elegant swords and lances. Am I the only one offended by this ?

[Estie]

It looks like the answer is a deafening "YES!"; I guess Ill just imagine that whip to be a club and my paladins having taken an oath not to shed blood.

[Karkaroth]

Personally, I think that it's best not to jump into the rabbit hole of customized bonuses for each weapon, and you should stay as far away from it as possible. What next, should druids get bonuses with scimitars because of that one obscure rabbit hole that led to them having proficiency in D&D? Sure, there's a funny vestige of elder days in the bonus for non-blood-shedding weapons, but if anything is going to change that it should just be cutting it out. It's... fundamentally a silly descendant of a silly thing. Like, if you're going to interact with it to change it so it fits more with reality and codes of ethics and stuff, you should just remove it once and for all; it only exists as a thing that is there because it's there. Trying to apply logic to it is a fundamentally futile endeavour.

[PowerDiver]

It looks like the answer is a deafening "YES!"; I guess Ill just imagine that whip to be a club and my paladins having taken an oath not to shed blood.

It's not a deadening yes, it's just that the idea in the first place is a stupid rule from D&D to make the party members fight less over which char gets which weapon found in the treasure chest. There are no pros and cons to debate. It's just stupid in its entirety. Arguing which weapon it should apply to is beyond pointless.

Clubs shed blood.

When you live in a place where it is illegal for your class to own an edged weapon, you use blunt weapons. Think of feudal Japan. That doesn't mean someone who left to fight monsters would refuse to use edged weapons.

The most priestly weapon in my history of reading fantasy is the dagger. Weapons used by priests who don't kill are irrelevant.

[Nick]

I left a bonus for blunt weapons to Priests and Paladins because (a) blunt weapons tend to be objectively worse, and this gave them a point (as it were) and (b) I thought it would please the traditionalists. Looks like I was wrong about (b)

[Estie]

Seeing as I was the only one complaining, "the traditionalists" must be me
I dont know what has earned me this epithet, but why would making a change to the paladin class please someone conservative ?

[Nick]

I guess I'm talking about traditional as "paladins used to have the pointy penalty"