New version of v4

[Djabanete]

Anyone want to come up with a list of about a hundred rune names?

I got to fifty-five before I had to think about other stuff. Randomization might be better. It's hard to think of rune names that don't seem inherently associated with certain powers.

Squiggly
Jagged
Shifting
Shimmering
Spiral

Glowing
Gleaming
Glistening
Eldritch
Cuneiform

Pyramidal
Ancient
Hexagonal
Starburst
Royal

Sinuous
Weird
Shining
Radiant
Silver

Copper
Bronze
Mithril
Golden
Platinum

Palladium
Iron
Bone
Obsidian
Mysterious

Dark
Blasted
Smoking
Twisted
Parallax

Slimy
Swirling
Whirlpool
Spidery
Curlicue

Wild
Spinning
Rotating
Psychic
Wavy

Pulsating
Vortex
Blinking
Swarming
Oily

Intricate
Cunning
Subtle
Faded
Bloodline

[Magnate]

Good effort though! I wonder what would happen if we plugged those into the random name generator ...

[Nomad]

I can easily see how to display the known and unknown runes in the Inspect screen. I can see how we display them in the knowledge menu. Do you think we should list all rune names, the way we list all object flavours? Personally I think that's bogus - I don't think you should know at the start of the game all the flavours that you'll ever see in the game. But maybe I'm missing something important?

I don't think knowing the names and total number of flavours really gives you any sort of advantage, though. And it's nice for both new players and completists to be able to see at a glance how much there is still to be discovered.

I think the alternative, showing no flavours until they're discovered, is a bit awkward too, since repeat players get persistent memory of base items, monsters, etc., so logically they should maintain a memory of at least the number of flavoured items they've discovered. But obviously you can't show them a partial list of 'previously discovered' flavours, since that way lies spoilers and metagaming, so I think the compromise of showing all is arguably best.

I think people will want the known runes "translated" in the Inspect screen, so they don't have to remember what each one does. But I may be wrong - since the known info will be shown anyway.

I agree that they should be translated. I think it should work pretty much the same as scroll flavours: nonsense words when you don't know them, useful names when you do. I think keeping a bunch of untranslated runes around after they're redundant ends up being flavour over clarity.

So I think it should look something like:

Known Runes: Fire Resistance, Slow Digestion
Unknown Runes: YGG, LAGO, MALUR

Or whatever.

Good effort though! I wonder what would happen if we plugged those into the random name generator ...

Presumably:

Squm
Jaming
Shiftering
Glorm
Pyrious

etc.

(Actually, those look like quite good rune names...)

[Nick]

The obvious solution is to use the Cirth and the Tengwar - the UTF-8 guys should be able to sort that out, right?

[Magnate]

The obvious solution is to use the Cirth and the Tengwar - the UTF-8 guys should be able to sort that out, right?

That would be pretty cool, but it's beyond my abilities. Anyway, I've opened a ticket for this (#1574) so we'll sort something out. We can always start with Nomad's name fragments and switch to Tolkein runes later if someone codes it.

[Nomad]

Okay, I came up with a list of seed names based on Norse runes, fragments of Norse names, and whatever came into my head. I swapped them for the scroll names as a test, and got this list. (Although obviously for runes you'd just want single 'words', not multi-part phrases like the scrolls.) How does that look for rune names? I think some of them are possibly a bit long, but maybe there's a way to cap that or reject longer ones at generation time.

[Nick]

Okay, I came up with a list of seed names based on Norse runes, fragments of Norse names, and whatever came into my head. I swapped them for the scroll names as a test, and got this list. (Although obviously for runes you'd just want single 'words', not multi-part phrases like the scrolls.) How does that look for rune names? I think some of them are possibly a bit long, but maybe there's a way to cap that or reject longer ones at generation time.

Single words from this list, truncated at 6 letters looks perfect to me.

@Magnate: Obvious troll is not obvious enough...

[Nomad]

Well, I've got to run now, so here's the names.txt file if anybody wants to play around with it. Runes are added at the bottom as N:3.

[Magnate]

Well, I've got to run now, so here's the names.txt file if anybody wants to play around with it. Runes are added at the bottom as N:3.

Excellent, thanks. Looks like I found my next ticket to work on ...

[Djabanete]

The obvious solution is to use the Cirth and the Tengwar - the UTF-8 guys should be able to sort that out, right?

Wow. I would play the hell out of v4/Vanilla if this was incorporated.

Those look amazing.

[Derakon]

If we were going to incorporate an alternate font for runes, definitely Cirth over Tengwar. Sure Tengwar has that Tolkeinian flavor going for it, but it is also horribly redundant in form. And also the Cirth script is what many people think of when they hear "runes".

[takkaria]

I read a scroll of treasure detection standing next to a potion, it turned into an asterisk and I got the message "You have no room for unknown item" when I walked over it. When I went out of LOS and then back into LOS it turned back into the potion.

Fixed now, along with some exploits, in both V and v4.

[takkaria]

Yes, I'm still seeking confirmation from takkaria on this. My expectation is that lanterns *are* supposed to refill other lanterns, and that the fact that they now can't is unintentional. But I want to check that takkaria didn't have some other reason for them not doing so.

Yeah, it's totally unintentional! I was too eager in removing code.

[Nomad]

Discovered a quirk with 'known runes'; getting hit by an attack causes you to know all the relevant runes that you don't have. For instance, I got attacked by a disenchanter mold and RES_DISEN was added to the list; get hit by a blast of cold and you learn RES_COLD and IM_COLD (plus some irrelevant ones like VULN_COLD and HATES_COLD).

I'm not clear if this is just an issue with the rune knowledge menu or it actually affects ID. (It may do, because I've certainly been confused at times trying to figure out how I came to know specific runes.)

[Magnate]

Discovered a quirk with 'known runes'; getting hit by an attack causes you to know all the relevant runes that you don't have. For instance, I got attacked by a disenchanter mold and RES_DISEN was added to the list; get hit by a blast of cold and you learn RES_COLD and IM_COLD (plus some irrelevant ones like VULN_COLD and HATES_COLD).

I'm not clear if this is just an issue with the rune knowledge menu or it actually affects ID. (It may do, because I've certainly been confused at times trying to figure out how I came to know specific runes.)

Ah, well done. I think that's a bug which *is* affecting ID. I'll confirm ASAP. This is because you learn the absence of a resist flag (rune) on an item when you get hit by things - but obviously you shouldn't learn what the rune looks like.