[Announce] FrogComposband 7.0.cloudberry released

[wobbly]

Does FrogCompos still have the roguelike keyset? It should let you move using non-numeric keys.

It does though it plays a bit funny in that store menus and inscriptions are still the angband set. So to (z)ap z you inscribe @az and to (a)ctivate a you inscribe @za

Playing around in Sil with vi-keys I think I can just use the angband set and keymap hjkl, yu & bn. I think there I just need something else for (u)se, (U)se and (k)estroy.

& something for look too I guess

[Derakon]

Anyone playing without a numpad? What do you use for movement instead?

Does FrogCompos still have the roguelike keyset? It should let you move using non-numeric keys.

[CyclopsSlayer]

Anyone playing without a numpad? What do you use for movement instead?

I live, and far too often die by my numpad.

Back some years, under frogknows, I was on a laptop with no numpad and remapped the keyboard to use TYU GHJ BNM as move keys, but that was incredibly akward as I messed with a lot of standard commands

[wobbly]

Anyone playing without a numpad? What do you use for movement instead?

[wobbly]

That sounds like bad luck, it's not unusual for me to see a reasonable set at shop 2. Incidently I'm not a fan of spiked wizard gloves and the like which seem to disrupt the tradeoff between damage & Md bonus. Though perhaps that's ok in terms of competing with artifact gloves. Still, great gloves are rare and being able to Md the glove slot without loss on a big bruiser, that's not something to be sneezed at.

[Sideways]

That doesnt make logical sense. Why would magical gloves intended to improve theft reduce fighting ability?

They don't. They decrease to-dam, but improve to-hit and +DEX; with the average character, at the point when they find their first thief gloves, the overall effect on melee damage tends to be close to zero, and is often positive.

Not sure why that's not the case for CyclopsSlayer's characters; maybe he's playing unusual combinations the normal math doesn't apply to, or has been really unlucky with his thief gloves; or maybe he's just wrong.

[Pete Mack]

That doesnt make logical sense. Why would magical gloves intended to improve theft reduce fighting ability? That said, the only such gloves should be leather or silk. What thief would ever wear steel gauntlets on a caper?

[CyclopsSlayer]

Thief gloves are good for all classes. Mage types can wear them without penalties because of the +DEX, and for more melee-oriented characters an early pair of thief gloves is also often a strong option (free stealth and sust_dex with no loss of damage, or even improved damage, thanks to the +DEX and +to-hit) unless they've found gloves of slaying first. Apart from characters with 0x FA from other sources, I'm not sure who'd prefer gloves of free action to gloves of the thief.

Spiked gauntlets and studded gloves are object base types, not egos; they can generate with all the same egos (including Free Action) as other glove types.

I have never seen Thief gloves without a huge loss of Damage and to-hit, something +Dex/Stl doesn't begin to fix. Seriously I think only a single pair had a shop value above 1 coin, or a score worth noticing.
Once I get below dLevel 30 or so I start seeing them with decent numbers. But shallow? I wouldn't wear them on a dare, much rather do totally without.

[Sideways]

Thief gloves are good for all classes. Mage types can wear them without penalties because of the +DEX, and for more melee-oriented characters an early pair of thief gloves is also often a strong option (free stealth and sust_dex with no loss of damage, or even improved damage, thanks to the +DEX and +to-hit) unless they've found gloves of slaying first. Apart from characters with 0x FA from other sources, I'm not sure who'd prefer gloves of free action to gloves of the thief.

Spiked gauntlets and studded gloves are object base types, not egos; they can generate with all the same egos (including Free Action) as other glove types.

[CyclopsSlayer]

Weaponsmithing - there is no option to split a stack when Enhancing or Absorbing. You can drop a partial stack, enhance and pickup the remainder. Just not Enhance one out of a stack.

Melee Gloves for hybrids - With spiked, studded, wizard and thief gloves/gauntlets, it seems that wearable gloves like Free Action have become exceedingly rare. So, either take combat penalties, mana and fail penalties, or going without until your stats raise to overcome the penalties. Although something like -7,-8 (hit/dmg) is fairly hard to overcome in a characters first 30-40 levels.
EDIT: Just found Spiked Gauntlets of the Wizard (-9, -1) [4, -14] (+3) {InMd}

[TauzentBlitz]

Skill Masters with 5 points in Burglary don't get friendly piranhas from traps either.

Edit: Any monster you ride on will log every step you take as a non-spell-cast turn, more or less permanently ruining their spell % chance in recall. This even takes precedence over the probing spell. (After riding around a Hell Knight on a ring character for a while it has a listed 1.88% chance, 854 out of 45245 moves.)

Edit Edit: Does weapon proficiency affect skillmaster throwing to_hit?

MORE EDIT: Anyone know what a good set of schools for a Blood Mage is? I'm considering Death as a primary for those vampirism spells (and while I haven't tested the spells, the vampirism wand still heals a blood mage fully) and then maybe Armageddon to begin with and then switch to sorcery once I have a good set of damage spells from the Death Realm.

[CyclopsSlayer]

Sorry, it wasn't meant to be an accusation.
I was just curious about the inner workings of complex calculations. I am only remotely familiar with coding, classes in BASIC and Pascal 40 years ago, so looking into the source is not really an option. I was just curious about the process order and whether or not it rendered the displayed numbers as meaningful.

[Sideways]

I'm not sure how the concept would even apply to something like saves or fails or to-hit.

And discounts have that process order for a reason - it means all discounts can be calculated once in one place in the code, and don't need to be separately applied by every piece of code that wants a discounted price, and item values don't need any scaling. It makes the code a lot easier to maintain, and the errors in shop prices that result from it are very minor.

Could I fix it with some hack - "apply the discount later in this special case", and then do the applying where necessary - sure, but it wouldn't be a good return on the coding investment.

[CyclopsSlayer]

I think that has to do with the order in which certain things are calculated. In this case the boots probably have a "real" value of 6, which becomes 5 after the discount is applied and the resulting value is rounded up. Then that's multiplied by some factor in the store, and if that factor is something like 1.73, you get 6*1.73=10.38=10 and 5*1.73=8.65=9.

Although it may seem odd to apply the discount so early (and that is the root cause of the weird prices you're seeing), from a coding point of view it's easier to do it that way.

Ah, okay. Yes applying the discount early makes the process order dubious.

Is the same true of other things, Saves, Fails, To-Hit, Damage, etc...??

[Sideways]

I think that has to do with the order in which certain things are calculated. In this case the boots probably have a "real" value of 6, which becomes 5 after the discount is applied and the resulting value is rounded up. Then that's multiplied by some factor in the store, and if that factor is something like 1.73, you get 6*1.73=10.38=10 and 5*1.73=8.65=9.

Although it may seem odd to apply the discount so early (and that is the root cause of the weird prices you're seeing), from a coding point of view it's easier to do it that way.