[Un] Unangband 0.6.2-gold released

[thorgot]

Detect Power is impossible to learn (from the Magic Book of Conjuring) unless I get a Book of Lore, which also has the spell. Either remove it from the book of conjuring or give it another, more reasonable, prerequisite.

Technically, a book of Craft has one of the prerequisites (Sense Magic), but it still seems unfair to rely on a rare drop for something as important as Detect Power..

Acid Bolt would require me to have a book of Acid Magic to learn (that's the only place I can learn Acid Spit and Minor Acid Ball). Pointless, because that book has Acid Bolt.

[Bandobras]

but it would be maybe more fun, if I could cast even spells which I don't learnt - from altair?

Sounds nice, but this is not KISS, this would complicate the game rules logic. A fourth state would be needed for spells: too-hard, not-learned, learned, castable-even-though-unlearned. Perhaps even castable-even-though-too-hard? I'm not sure if it's worth it as long as altars are just ordinary books, only unmovable (which is totally KISS). (Possible confusion cases: what if you browse a book corresponding to an altar when standing on an altar? Some spells would be in two states at once? And what if your learned spell-limit is reached? )

I know that I can learn spell from altair but I would like use it only temporary for local battle...

A nicely balanced implementation of spell/prayer forgetting just waits for somebody to implement it, so you would be able to learn temporarily and then forget.

Well I thought that maybe it would be interesting if I could choose different type of level by choosing different stairs. So level with bad feeling would have some hint on stairs.

Unfortunately it's hard to generate a level with a precisely given feeling. And just adding 5 to the level of monster and object generation seems too blank. Just choose a different dungeon or dive if you are not deep enough...

Or maybe hint about theme of dungeon? For example ladder covered by slime going to level with jelly and worms, stairs with bushes and grass going to "forest" level with trolls etc.... I am just thinking.

That's a great idea! We have a few types of stairs so it'd be great if they influenced the type of monster and terrain ecology of the level the lead to. The only problem is, the type of the stairs is already influenced by the current ecology! So may end with a dungeon with Trolls and graveyard rooms from top to bottom if the first level is generated such! Hmmm, perhaps the stair terrain features should be totally random and exempt from the ecology considerations on the current level, only affecting the next one?

Another thing: It seems to me, that monsters can breath/cast on me even through wall.

There are some cracked walls, etc. you can shoot/breath through, but not walk, or see through, etc. But the screenshot does not seem to show any such walls (unless the stars are windows). So it may be the known bugs tha monsters try to cast spells through walls and even from a great distance. With most spells (bolts, balls), the walls block them, but possibly confusion is not blocked...

Also it seems to me that most of breathing monster can see me from very long distance.

They are monsters, after all, not puny humanoids... Wear an item with ESP
and you'll be as one of them.

However, the screen shot looks strange. You should be able to easily see the ogre. Is the room dark? If so, light it up, because monsters have perfect infravision, so you'll always be at a disadvantage, even with the light doused...

[lenochware]

I have stored frost runestone in my home with one spell and it seems that this spell is changing randomly - everytime when I look at it there is different forst spell...
Yes, I like idea casting spells from altairs - it can be used for interesting tactic - but it would be maybe more fun, if I could cast even spells which I don't learnt - from altair? Because I don't know most of spells on altairs so I cannot use it. I know that I can learn spell from altair but I would like use it only temporary for local battle...

BTW, you know the fountain description says what it does when quaffed? I see... I didn't notice it.

Specify 'harder' Well I thought that maybe it would be interesting if I could choose different type of level by choosing different stairs. So level with bad feeling would have some hint on stairs. Or maybe hint about theme of dungeon? For example ladder covered by slime going to level with jelly and worms, stairs with bushes and grass going to "forest" level with trolls etc.... I am just thinking.

Another thing: It seems to me, that monsters can breath/cast on me even through wall. Here http://lenochware.ic.cz/preszed.gif Azog cast confusion on me happily...
Also it seems to me that most of breathing monster can see me from very long distance. See this: http://lenochware.ic.cz/longbreath.gif Here is green ogre on opposite corner of room, shooting some poison on me. I cannot see him so I haven't many possibilities to defense. It doesn't seems fair that monsters can see much longer distance than me. Or it differs on different types of monsters? Or he can see me because I am using light? I don't know...

[thorgot]

Oops. I've forgotten about the bags. Well, we can always revert the patch and it's only in the devel version.

How much UI hassle is the runes casting for you? How do you figure which spell you can cast and which you cannot? What if you had to cast your fire bolt spells from runes? Do you ever cast spells other than the two you mentioned from runes?

The UI was pretty annoying. I figured out which spells I could cast by browsing the runes. The runes were also incredibly useful when a waterball wiped out one of my basic books.

I still think it's a good idea to get rid of it.

[andrewdoull]

Oops. I've forgotten about the bags. Well, we can always revert the patch and it's only in the devel version.

How much UI hassle is the runes casting for you? How do you figure which spell you can cast and which you cannot? What if you had to cast your fire bolt spells from runes? Do you ever cast spells other than the two you mentioned from runes?

I suspect those spells are useful enough and game play changing enough that having the book is probably a better requirement anyway. I'll get to that in the blog article series I'm writing on the magic system.

Andrew

[Bandobras]

Oops. I've forgotten about the bags. Well, we can always revert the patch and it's only in the devel version.

How much UI hassle is the runes casting for you? How do you figure which spell you can cast and which you cannot? What if you had to cast your fire bolt spells from runes? Do you ever cast spells other than the two you mentioned from runes?

[thorgot]

I cast several of my spells from runestones. Much nicer to carry a bag of runes than to carry a book of earth magic just to be able to cast stone to mud, book of water magic just to be able to cast mana pool, etc.

[Bandobras]

You're pretty much right. Runes are already useful enough.

Heh, great, removing code is the kind of coding I like the most. Removed this in trunk. Lots of hacks gone. Too big commit to risk in gold, though.

We still need to complete (and perhaps change in some places) the rune definitions for some items and egos. This is an easy, but tedious, text file editing task...

[andrewdoull]

I've never cast from runestones. I guess you should have several runestones to cast any given spell. When you drop one of them, casting is not longer possible. It may be buggy, though. Actually, if it's so rarely used, perhaps remove it? Casting from terrain and taking spell notes from terrain is already fun enough, with much easier UI and logic behind it, I think. We have a bit of featuritis around here, I guess.

You're pretty much right. Runes are already useful enough.

Potion flavours? Interesting. I wouldn't be suprised if it was already implemented but buggy, disabled or not enough data supplied into the script files... BTW, you know the fountain description says what it does when quaffed?

The whole flavoured fountains thing needs to be sorted someway or other. I was going to do that along with flavoured trees...

It's a minor enough a part of the game at the moment, that it can wait...

Andrew

[Big Al]

Thanks for the comments all; I don't have time to respond fully right now (got a new summer job working from 8am to 9pm, six days a week - so my 'band hacking is pretty much limited to one day a week), but I'll get around to it eventually.

[Bandobras]

Bug report: I had problem when I enter level 2 of Mirkwood dungeon - game crashes. (WinXP, 0.6.2 gold) It just froze for a few seconds when I press ">", harddisk LED blinks, and after that, game window disappears. 2 hours of playing was gone....

Sorry about that. Cannot reproduce here. Let's hope gold2 with some memory corruptions fixed, will be more stable.

Maybe it would be useful add "autosave when entering new level" option - something similar already exists in ZAngband.

A very good idea, especially given the speed of Un development that leaves behind bugfixing...

I dont't understand how rune stones works. I had spell "Frost bolt" on one rune stone, but it disappears after a while. Is it normal?

I've never cast from runestones. I guess you should have several runestones to cast any given spell. When you drop one of them, casting is not longer possible. It may be buggy, though. Actually, if it's so rarely used, perhaps remove it? Casting from terrain and taking spell notes from terrain is already fun enough, with much easier UI and logic behind it, I think. We have a bit of featuritis around here, I guess.

I got a message "You feel very well" after I drink from some fountain - maybe it would be interesting rename these fountains after tried on "Fountain of health" or something like that... similar like with trying potion.

Potion flavours? Interesting. I wouldn't be suprised if it was already implemented but buggy, disabled or not enough data supplied into the script files... BTW, you know the fountain description says what it does when quaffed?

I saw somewhere stone well ">" (entrace to the next level) : maybe it would be fun if some entraces goes to harder levels than other - and it would be noticed after doing (r)ecall on ">" ..?

Specify 'harder'.

[Bandobras]

# Back to the LotR - through Moria
59:the door to Moria (20)
14:west Moria entrance (6-24)
	16:west gates of Moria (33-36)
60:the mines of Moria (22-30)
15:east Moria entrance (13-24)
	17:east gates of Moria (36)
	61:Khazad-Dum (30-40)
# Or alternate to Moria through the mountains

I'd change it to

# Back to the LotR - to Lothlorien through Moria
14:west Moria entrance (6-24)
	16:west gates of Moria (33-36)
59:the door to Moria (20)
60:the mines of Moria (22-30)
15:east Moria entrance (13-24)
	17:east gates of Moria (36)
	61:Khazad-Dum (30-40)
# Or to Lothlorien not via Moria, but through the mountains

because the door, leads to mines, which leads to Khazad-Dum. The door is not in front of the west entrance (14), but is a way through the closed gates (16).

Then, after consulting your map, I think I'd put the way south from Lothlorien, that is Lothlorien, Parth Galen, Dead Marshes and Ithilien. Then also Minas Morgul and Cirith Ungol. This is how Frodo went, isn't it?

Then, or perhaps before the Moria section, I'd put

# Or alternate way around south
64:Dunland (9)
	65:Dunland in war rage (22-37)
40:Isengard (3-33)
	23:Isengard, war-ready (21-40)
	66:emptied Isengard (30-45)
20:Fangorn Forest (20)
	37:Fangorn, aflame (27)
	62:the Ent Moot (21)
21:Edoras (8-27)
	22:Hornburg (22-40)

And in this way we got rid of the
# Misc Forests
section.

The rest, and the general idea, are great. Feel free to do this your way, of course. This is only reordering of the dungeons, which are totally chaotically ordered right now, and will remain so without your help...

[Fede]

Oh, yes, you are right. That explains why entering Dol Guldur is so important in Un, while conquering it is not. But this also means entering Dol Guldur is a part of "The Hobbit" plot, while conquering it is on the boundary between the plots. In fact, IIRC driving Sauron out of Dol Guldur moved him to Mordor, and this feels more a part of LotR storyline.

I agree.

Btw, Dol Guldur was conquered and at least partially demolished by Celeborn at the end of the War of the Ring, so it's probably more LotR-ish, anyway it's not an important matter.

Edit: But this contradicts the current Un behaviour, where even entering Dol Guldur changes some locations to their LotR setup. Hmm...

Uhm, why is this bad?

[Bandobras]

I found the The Encyclopedia of Arda to be a great help concerning everything middle-earth ...

I also use The Thain's Book (http://www.tuckborough.net/) when the above fails.

[Arralen]

I found the The Encyclopedia of Arda to be a great help concerning everything middle-earth ...