Roguelikes advancing the Tolkien setting but removing kinks, unfairness and flaws?

[DanielKennethRego]

Hello, I was a massive fan of Angband and ToME 2 in the 2000s, and won a couple of times, but only with some savescumming to save myself from a lot of deaths that I (and I think a fairly large base of players) feel were unfair or unavoidable. I am FAR from a particularly good player, but there are several things in the Angband/ToME 2 gameplay experience that I found distasteful, including several kinds of instadeaths, MANY unavoidable deaths without prior spoiling and some of the manual grind involved.

Despite this, no other roguelike I've played since (DCSS, ToME 4, Brogue, some NetHack) has ever given me the same in-game feeling, atmosphere and incredibly immersive experience and flavour. I'm really attached to the Tolkienan setting, and I'd love to play a roguelike that takes what Angband and its variants (especially ToME 2, with its multiple dungeons, thematic variety in dungeons and general expansion of classes, races and playstyles) and derivates had, and evolves the game further, while ironing out the generally perceived problems with Angband and ToME 2?

TLDR; what are the current frontrunners of the Tolkien setting roguelikes that significantly improve upon and evolve Angband and its close variants?

[Nick]

Sil is outstanding - a more minimalist game than Angband, but beautifully crafted and atmospheric.

If you want an expansion rather than a contraction of Angband, then my variant FAangband may suit you.

[PowerWyrm]

what are the current frontrunners of the Tolkien setting roguelikes that significantly improve upon and evolve Angband and its close variants?

Sil: this game has completely been rethought while staying in the Tolkien universe. A warning though... it's much more difficult than Angband and takes a while to get into.

PWMAngband: play Angband with your friends in a real-time environement.

[taptap]

Sil: it's much more difficult than Angband and takes a while to get into.

Is Sil really harder than Angband? Maybe I should try the recent competition...

[Tarrant]

I don't know if "harder" is necessarily the right word. More varied? Most of my Angband experience is either second hand or from ZAngband back in the day, but what I've observed is that the later game essentially plays out the same way every time, and that you can (if you know what you're doing) achieve a point where there is no way for you to lose. ESP/otherwise detect the entire level, grab whatever you want, teleport away anything that you don't want to fight, etc.

Sil doesn't have really any teleportation, nor does it have that level of consistent detection. I happen to prefer Sil style gameplay, because it encourages calculated risks and tactical decision-making, other than (as I've heard it described) reducing the chance of a lethal encounter to zero. You can't really do that in Sil.

While that may sound frustrating to an Angband player, bear in mind that Sil has been significantly reduced in scope; an average (winning) game of Sil takes far less time than an average (winning) game of Angband.

[fph]

Sil doesn't have really any teleportation, nor does it have that level of consistent detection. I happen to prefer Sil style gameplay, because it encourages calculated risks and tactical decision-making, other than (as I've heard it described) reducing the chance of a lethal encounter to zero. You can't really do that in Sil.

The way I like to describe it is: Sil aims to remove instadeaths. To preserve balance, you also have to remove instasaves.