My variant development journal

[CJNyfalt]

Load the genus file first, then add a field to the monster.txt file like 'X:dragon', or whatever. Then, when you read in monster.txt, and you hit the genus line, do a search of the genus names for that genus, and copy all the information across to the monster.txt record. The 'X' line should probably go right after 'N' or 'G'.

Thanks. I got it working. It seems that I just assumed that it was more complicated than it was.

[CJNyfalt]

So, I got the genus stuff working and started to add entries:

N:3:Orc
G:o
F:ORC | OPEN_DOOR | BASH_DOOR
D:Orcs.
# Not Half-orcs, which will be removed

N:4:Alethinophidia
G:J
F:ANIMAL
D:True snakes. An infra-order.
# As a future project, break up into snake families.

N:5:Chilopoda
G:c
F:ANIMAL
D:Centipedes. A class.

N:6:Troll
G:T
F:TROLL | OPEN_DOOR | BASH_DOOR
D:Trolls.
# Not Half-trolls, which will be removed.

N:7:Chiroptera
G:b
F:ANIMAL | FLYING
D:Bats. An order.

N:8:Formicidae
G:a
F:ANIMAL
D:Ants. A family.

N:9:Kobold
G:k
F:OPEN_DOOR | BASH_DOOR
D:Kobolds.
# Add IM_POIS?

Some problems in monster distribution are already starting to show, for example the number of 'B'irds are quite lacking. There are only three in Sang, and two of them are elemental type creatures.

Some things I'm trying to make up my mind on are:
- What to do with monsters that are 'outsiders' of an elemental nature? I'm not a fan of having to deal with a multi-planar cosmology, on the other hand removing them would make the game poorer in monster variation.
- How to classify werewolves and similar monsters? Make priority of the humanoid or the beast status?
- How to classify undead? Does the undead status or the basic monster come first?
- How to make the basic monster + elemental theme seem more natural? It seems not plausible that there are dragons and hounds of every element.

BTW, if someone else is working on Sangband: Bat of Gorgoroth was missing FLYING flag.

[PaulBlay]

Some problems in monster distribution are already starting to show, for example the number of 'B'irds are quite lacking.

Because dungeons are underground? ;-) Maybe you should add puffins.

- What to do with monsters that are 'outsiders' of an elemental nature? I'm not a fan of having to deal with a multi-planar cosmology, on the other hand removing them would make the game poorer in monster variation.

I think that priest spells and such establish that there is at least one more plane than the prime material plane. Having spells / monsters draw their power from other planes also provides a good 'explanation' for how magic 'works' in the game.

Using the 'directions' metaphor you can have. Up to good, down to evil. Compass directions to Fire / Earth / Water / Air. And possibly an extra dimension for Dark/Negative vs Light/Positive planes. Pick and choose to taste.

- How to classify werewolves and similar monsters? Make priority of the humanoid or the beast status?

Unnatural creatures are more monster than animal. You wouldn't expect a "charm animal" spell to work on a werewolf, nor would you allow a druid to have a werewolf as his animal familiar. (To pick a metaphor).

How to classify undead? Does the undead status or the basic monster come first?

I'll go with my previous answer here. Undead are "bodies animated by unnatural forces". So the unnatural forces seem more essential than the materials being worked on (skeletons, corpses etc.)

How to make the basic monster + elemental theme seem more natural? It seems not plausible that there are dragons and hounds of every element.

It's not that unlikely. If you say that hounds naturally evolved (or were magically endowed with) the ability to draw energy from other planes then which element they end up with is a matter of 'direction'. You could postulate an "ur-hound" that could breathe attacks of every element but then split into the different species. I imagine that specializing in one element gives you stronger attacks than being a generalist. Also you would probably be vulnerable to your own, and your friend's, attacks (ouch!).

[CJNyfalt]

Thanks for the valuable comments.

I think that priest spells and such establish that there is at least one more plane than the prime material plane. Having spells / monsters draw their power from other planes also provides a good 'explanation' for how magic 'works' in the game.

Using the 'directions' metaphor you can have. Up to good, down to evil. Compass directions to Fire / Earth / Water / Air. And possibly an extra dimension for Dark/Negative vs Light/Positive planes. Pick and choose to taste.

A possible scheme yes, I will consider it.

Unnatural creatures are more monster than animal. You wouldn't expect a "charm animal" spell to work on a werewolf, nor would you allow a druid to have a werewolf as his animal familiar. (To pick a metaphor).

More like a human affected by magic, then.

I'll go with my previous answer here. Undead are "bodies animated by unnatural forces". So the unnatural forces seem more essential than the materials being worked on (skeletons, corpses etc.)

Works fine with skeletons and zombies, but what about intelligent undead who keeps their mind?

It's not that unlikely. If you say that hounds naturally evolved (or were magically endowed with) the ability to draw energy from other planes then which element they end up with is a matter of 'direction'. You could postulate an "ur-hound" that could breathe attacks of every element but then split into the different species. I imagine that specializing in one element gives you stronger attacks than being a generalist. Also you would probably be vulnerable to your own, and your friend's, attacks (ouch!).

Sounds reasonable.

I have nearly finished classifying all animals, but two groups still gives me a bit of trouble.

- 'Z': They are animals and hounds, so it looks like they should belong in group 'Canis' and use letter 'C'. Would this be reasonable, or will this change cause great screams of anguish?

- 'w': Worm masses. Worms are difficult to classify (for more details look at worms in wikipedia), so here the question is: What kind of worms?

[PaulBlay]

Works fine with skeletons and zombies, but what about intelligent undead who keeps their mind?

Intelligent undead still have their minds, and probably souls (albeit possibly in a handy container nearby ;-). So spells that affect minds / souls could presumably have some effect on them. The 'unnatural driving force' thing doesn't change though, it's just that there's someone behind the steering wheel. Looked at that way intelligent undead are probably closer to the original being than animated skeletons and such but it's still a tricky call.

[CJNyfalt]

- 'Z': They are animals and hounds, so it looks like they should belong in group 'Canis' and use letter 'C'. Would this be reasonable, or will this change cause great screams of anguish?

Since no one spoke up, all hounds now use letter 'C', and townspeople use letter 'p'.

I'm trying to decide which letter to use for dragons: 'd' or 'D'?

Also, Ogres are flagged as both giants and orcs. In my opinion they're neither, so I will probably remove those flags from them.

I have still to add groupings for 305 monsters, of which the biggest remaining groups are probably dragons, demons, jellies, molds and elementals.

[PaulBlay]

I'm trying to decide which letter to use for dragons: 'd' or 'D'?

I would tend to think 'D' is better (I'd rather over estimate the threat than underestimate it). However that depends on what you intend to do with the letter you don't use.

[CJNyfalt]

I would tend to think 'D' is better (I'd rather over estimate the threat than underestimate it). However that depends on what you intend to do with the letter you don't use.

I went with 'D', and also made all demons '&'.
Also made slime molds 'm' as the rest of the molds instead of ','.

Managed to reduce the non-grouped to 95, the trickiest ones are left.

Some examples of things I need to decide:
- What to do with freaks like griffins, minotaurs, dracolisks, ...?
- Should undead versions of orcs, dragons, trolls and animals still have the same flag as the living version?
- Should dracolichs be 'L' instead of 'D'?
- Are ogres ORC or GIANT or neither?

I'm also considering to replace all MULTIPLY flags with FRIENDS.

[PaulBlay]

I went with 'D', and also made all demons '&'.
Also made slime molds 'm' as the rest of the molds instead of ','.

Slime mold as in the thing you eat? Wasn't "slime mold" just a place holder for fruit-name-of-your-choice in Nethack? Maybe you should just change it to 'Banana'

[Daniel Fishman]

Dracoliches - and dracolisks - are dragons primarily, certainly as far as the player is concerned, because their major danger is their breath. Undead aren't expected to breathe for 300+ HP damage.

In Vanilla, Ogres have F:GIANT but not F:ORC so I would classify them as giants.

[CJNyfalt]

Slime mold as in the thing you eat? Wasn't "slime mold" just a place holder for fruit-name-of-your-choice in Nethack? Maybe you should just change it to 'Banana'

Yes, but also a monster in Sangband. Yes.

[CJNyfalt]

Dracoliches - and dracolisks - are dragons primarily, certainly as far as the player is concerned, because their major danger is their breath. Undead aren't expected to breathe for 300+ HP damage.

On the other hand, drolems are 'g' not 'D', and I'm sure players can learn to watch out for 'L's.

[CJNyfalt]

Monsters removed:
- Chimera
- Gorgimera, both was three-headed freaks.
- Half-orc
- Half-troll, no half-breeds wanted. (I will handle the player race naming later.)

Monster tweaks I will do today:
- Undead and construct versions of monsters will loose flags associated with living versions of them. (DRAGON, ANIMAL, ORC, TROLL, GIANT) So, a drolem and dracolich will not have the DRAGON flag, a colossus will not have GIANT flag, and so on.
- MULTIPLY flag will be replaced my FRIENDS flag.

Other monsters that will probably be removed:
- Drider
- Icky things. (Unless someone can make a good explanation what they're supposed to be.)
- Dracolisk
- Memory moss. (Amnesia is gone, it's one of two plant monsters)
- Shambling mound. (The other plant monster)

[buzzkill]

What about bringing back the old Venus Flytrap?

[CJNyfalt]

What about bringing back the old Venus Flytrap?

The idea has potential. However, I will not add it now, and I might make it a trap instead of monster.

Some of the recent changes made:
- Removed the following monsters: Drider, Jabberwock & the Tarrasque.
- Colbran changed to from 'g'olem to 'E'lemental.
- Dracolisk reworked into Greater Basilisk, breaths & flying flag removed.

Some of the monsters I'm having a hard time to classify and make up my mind about:
- Weres
- Mind flayer
- Griffons, Hippogriff, Harpy, Minotaurs
- Undead whose catergory isn't clear: Undead mystic, Undead beholder, nightwalker, nighstalker, nightwing, dreadlord
and several others.