Tweaked version of vanilla

[debo]

Thanks for the feedback! It seems like I can get away with lowering the drop percentages for town books and for dungeon books. The gallants dropping town books is new. The idea being that extra drops aren't a problem because you can just squelch them, but still, other people think that they drop too often, so it makes sense to lower the drop probs. Once I get the version up to date with all the refactoring changes going on, I'll make these tweaks.

I may have made up exactly which mob it was that was dropping town books, so don't go debugging that on my account -- I just remember lots of them dropping / appearing in the dungeon halls / as drops.

I did specifically note that every single unique I killed dropped a book of some sort, though. That part is actionable

[fizzix]

I may have made up exactly which mob it was that was dropping town books, so don't go debugging that on my account -- I just remember lots of them dropping / appearing in the dungeon halls / as drops.

I did specifically note that every single unique I killed dropped a book of some sort, though. That part is actionable

3.5 changed it so that lots of spell-casting monsters have drop-profiles and will drop town books. I'll probably lower the percentages across the board.

I did run some stats on spell books and there's something like a 40% chance of finding the 5th book before dungeon level 30, so that is a bit too high.

[Raajaton]

I started playing this version this weekend, and so far really enjoying it. It definitely offers a bit of a smoother early game, making things a bit more interesting with actually useful drops in the shallower depths.

The dungeon books definitely seem to appear much earlier. I found mb5 and mb6 between dlvls 20 and 23 I think, and found mb7 and mb9 around dlvl 40. Still haven't found mb8 yet.

The increase in stat potion drops is definitely apparent. I don't remember ever seeing stacks of 2 drop in the past, and that has been fairly common so far at around 3000'.

I really like the emphasis on killing uniques for artifact drops. In previous versions it felt pretty uncommon to get a useful drop from a unique kill with a lot of the goodies being on the floor inside vaults. That sort of lends itself to teleporting some of the more troublesome uniques away and grabbing free loot out of the vault. I've found a few things inside vaults so far, but far more from killing the bosses inside them.

I also really like the new potion/mushroom rooms and stuff like that. I stay pretty nicely stocked for long periods of time without having to go back to town. The only thing I have been lacking is arrows. I'm not sure if decent arrow drop rates have been decreased, or if I've just been pretty unlucky but I always seem to be hurting for ammo. It's a shame since I just found Bard and don't have any more good ammo to utilize it with.

[fizzix]

I started playing this version this weekend, and so far really enjoying it. It definitely offers a bit of a smoother early game, making things a bit more interesting with actually useful drops in the shallower depths.

The dungeon books definitely seem to appear much earlier. I found mb5 and mb6 between dlvls 20 and 23 I think, and found mb7 and mb9 around dlvl 40. Still haven't found mb8 yet.

I cut probs down by over 50% (I'll upload a new version after some bugs in HEAD get worked out). Finding mb9 on dlvl 40 is still incredibly lucky. That's 50 levels OoD, and drop rates only help so much with that. It does happen, but rarely. Nevertheless, stats have indicated that the lower dungeon books were getting dropped way too much. Question: If you clear every level from 1-40, what should be the chances of finding mb5? mb6?

I also really like the new potion/mushroom rooms and stuff like that. I stay pretty nicely stocked for long periods of time without having to go back to town. The only thing I have been lacking is arrows. I'm not sure if decent arrow drop rates have been decreased, or if I've just been pretty unlucky but I always seem to be hurting for ammo. It's a shame since I just found Bard and don't have any more good ammo to utilize it with.

None of these are local to my version. I've never really had ammo problems, but I haven't played a ranger in a while. I've often thought that having an ammo type that doesn't do extra dice, but has a much lower break prob would be nice. I guess this could be an ego, but i'd prefer it to be a base type, so it could still get brands.

Alternatively, we could change break probabilities based on whether it hit the enemy or not. With hits being less likely to break. I dunno, I haven't thought much about it.

The break probabilities for shots and pebbles are silly high.

[HallucinationMushroom]

A few quick thoughts.

I also noticed the big rate drop on books. I noticed more mage books, but that might just be because those are red. :/

I haven't noticed that many hound packs, and I've worked my way down to the end. Is that just luck, or have hound packs rarer? Their AI works in a way I've never noticed in a band before. It requires a specific sort of scenario for them to come to you, but a little more open than I'm used to seeing in FA/O.

I miss some of the false rumors when shopping, flavorwise. Not a big deal, but, there it is.

I love mass identify. Huge thumbs up. I first saw this in NPP and adored it. Glad to see it here.

I also noticed a smooth item progression. I'm no diver, but I never noticed having to stop for anything. I played fast for me, but I still usually play in levels where I'm strong as opposed to not. I was very surprised when my dex hit the stat cap so fast.

Does destruction destroy artifacts now?

I like the squelch system. I have never ever bothered to set up squelch before trying this, and when I went to destroy something for the first time it prompted me with squelch, which I tried. Super cool. I wouldn't have bothered otherwise. I also exceedingly rarely inscribe, for what that's worth.

[Raajaton]

I encountered a bug. I was fighting some demons who breathed chaos on me. While hallucinating I used my staff of teleportation. When I arrived I noticed myself showing up in the monster list.

@ 1 <player>

I thought it may have been hallucinate trying to mess with me, however after hallucinate cleared up, I'm still shown on the list.

Here's a screenshot.

[fizzix]

I encountered a bug. I was fighting some demons who breathed chaos on me. While hallucinating I used my staff of teleportation. When I arrived I noticed myself showing up in the monster list.

@ 1 <player>

Yeah, that's an old bug that's somewhere in vanilla. I'm not exactly sure when and why it shows up, which makes it tough to track.

[fizzix]

A few quick thoughts.

I haven't noticed that many hound packs, and I've worked my way down to the end. Is that just luck, or have hound packs rarer? Their AI works in a way I've never noticed in a band before. It requires a specific sort of scenario for them to come to you, but a little more open than I'm used to seeing in FA/O.

Hound packs got rarer in V a while back. I made all group monsters smaller, but didn't much with their rarity.

I love mass identify. Huge thumbs up. I first saw this in NPP and adored it. Glad to see it here.

Cool! I don't think this will make it into V though. There's significant objections to it.

I also noticed a smooth item progression. I'm no diver, but I never noticed having to stop for anything. I played fast for me, but I still usually play in levels where I'm strong as opposed to not. I was very surprised when my dex hit the stat cap so fast.

For myself I kind of want to balance it so that you can clear every other level and reach the bottom with a good chance of taking out Sauron and Morgoth. For V itself it's a little trickier, and I think this would be too generous.

Does destruction destroy artifacts now?

Yeah, circa 3.1 or 3.2 I think.

I like the squelch system. I have never ever bothered to set up squelch before trying this, and when I went to destroy something for the first time it prompted me with squelch, which I tried. Super cool. I wouldn't have bothered otherwise. I also exceedingly rarely inscribe, for what that's worth.

Squelch is fantastic. It's one of those things that once you use it you can't imagine life without it.

[Pete Mack]

So, I've played a Warrior using this "variant" and I must say I like this much better than the current vanilla. My character got quite lucky and found a pair of Boots of Elvenkind (+9 speed, +2 stealth) quite early and also found a very usable weapon soon after.

I like any variant that gives me boots of Elvenkind....

[Mondkalb]

I like any variant that gives me boots of Elvenkind....

Boots of Elvenkind are also in current Vanilla, I believe.

[HallucinationMushroom]

My destruction of artifacts, mass identify and squelch are all same thing to me, which ties in to tmj, but ultimately, the effort/time to id large piles of whats-it.
If I can identify large piles quickly, then I don't care if there's a lot of junk. For me, problem solved. In addition to not squelching or inscribing, I also don't autopickup, so my view is very skewed.

I didn't notice large piles of loot in the first place. And, I ended up turning off squelch because I was afraid I'd screw it up and destroy something good. At least *id* scrolls are no longer necessary. That's another big thumbs up.

[fizzix]

My destruction of artifacts, mass identify and squelch are all same thing to me, which ties in to tmj, but ultimately, the effort/time to id large piles of whats-it.
If I can identify large piles quickly, then I don't care if there's a lot of junk. For me, problem solved. In addition to not squelching or inscribing, I also don't autopickup, so my view is very skewed.

I didn't notice large piles of loot in the first place. And, I ended up turning off squelch because I was afraid I'd screw it up and destroy something good. At least *id* scrolls are no longer necessary. That's another big thumbs up.

*id* have been gone in V for a while now. Your thoughts on mass-id echo my own. I find it most useful in open floor vaults and pits after fighting many monsters.

There is a problem in my version about "accidentally squelching something good" which occurs because auto-inscribe happens on pickup not on ID. Generally the trick is to autoinscribe things like maces of disruption with !k so that you won't squelch them. This way that endgame worthy holy avenger MoD, can still be found. With mass-id, I don't think this works as desired. I'm sure I'll get around to fixing it at *some* point, I guess the idea is to auto-inscribe on pickup or on ID.

[takkaria]

My destruction of artifacts, mass identify and squelch are all same thing to me, which ties in to tmj, but ultimately, the effort/time to id large piles of whats-it.
If I can identify large piles quickly, then I don't care if there's a lot of junk. For me, problem solved. In addition to not squelching or inscribing, I also don't autopickup, so my view is very skewed.

I didn't notice large piles of loot in the first place. And, I ended up turning off squelch because I was afraid I'd screw it up and destroy something good. At least *id* scrolls are no longer necessary. That's another big thumbs up.

Squelch (and destruction) are more accurately referred to as 'ignoring' now. Any item ignored using 'k', whether automatically or otherwise, can be shown again using 'K', which toggles whether to show ignored items.

[HallucinationMushroom]

Oh, okay thanks.

[takkaria]

Oh, okay thanks.

And if you use 'k' on an ignored item, you can choose to unignore or unsquelch it too!