Halls of Mist 1.3.0

[buzzkill]

The luck boost seems nonsensical (why would you get lucky just for taking risks?)

It's not necessarily that you get lucky for taking risks, as that you (potentially) get rewarded for taking risks. If not, what's the point in taking risks. I envision it as being almost non-noticeable anyhow, like after 4 or 5 levels of descent your odds of finding a ego (or artifact, gasp!) might rise from 1% to 5% (per level). What I fear, is that it will results in more, either inferior or too heavy, non-ego weapons.

[ekolis]

And/or strengthen the Duke's townies every time the player returns to town (rather than based on something like MaxDepth).

The luck boost seems nonsensical (why would you get lucky just for taking risks?) but the boost to townies is quite thematic - if the Duke is truly growing in power, he should be tracking any threats (such as the player) and sending minions to fend them off!

[ekolis]

If I can't imagine my hero carrying a sword and a torch, I lose some sense of "being there". If we design a new system so that the player's defence without a shield just as good as it was before, we've lost nothing.

Can't smaller shields can be worn on the arm, leaving your hand free? Of course, then they become more an extension of your gauntlets than an actual defensive barrier...

What makes shields interesting, though, is the mechanics you can up with for blocking with them. If those mechanics could be transferred to gauntlets, weapons, and maybe even torches, then truly nothing would be lost!

Implementing realism in equipment does make one feature easier: player dolls a la Crawl!

[buzzkill]

Yes, if we can come up with a good way to do it. I haven't yet found a way that feels right.

On the other hand, a good Navigation skill is supposed to be a big benefit. Staying in the dungeon shouldn't be too profitable.

What about a possible boost to luck for each consecutive descent, a (definite) boost for each dive, and boost x2 for each plunge. These temporary boosts would only last until the player returns to town. I've no idea of how luck actually works, so the numbers may have to be adjusted. I don't know about anyone else, but I typically have trouble hanging in the early dungeon for more than 4 or 5 levels, descending 1 level at a time. I've never felt the urge to dive in Mist... this could be an incentive.

And/or strengthen the Duke's townies every time the player returns to town (rather than based on something like MaxDepth).

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Bow only makes sense if you imagine that the character drops the torch on the ground when he shoots. This is just abstracted away.

[LostTemplar]

You cannot just wield a bow with something else since it is two handed. Bow slot was allways thought not like a wield slot, but just as a quick access to another weapon.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Realism is just a tool to be used in places where it doesn't hurt or even enhances gameplay.

EDIT: Maybe I should explain some of my choices a bit.

Removing shields: Torches are a big part of the flavour of Halls of Mist. If I can't imagine my hero carrying a sword and a torch, I lose some sense of "being there". If we design a new system so that the player's defence without a shield just as good as it was before, we've lost nothing.

Removing polearms: Actually I think I'm just going to remove non-axe polearms. Why? To make skill names Bash, Slash, and Pierce work. Bash = attacking with a blunt weapon. Slash = attacking lightly armored opponents with an edged weapon. Pierce = attacking heavily armored opponents with an edged weapon.

"Attacking" includes also thrown weapons. Pierce is always lower than Slash, because blades are clearly better against light armor. Blunt weapons use the same skill for both light and heavy armor. Usually Bash skill is lower than Slash but higher than Pierce.

After some serious pondering, I've realized that it would be hard to make the game work without bows. So they're back in. Even though you can't wield a bow and a torch at the same time. For some reason it doesn't bother me like the sword + shield + torch combination.

[Starhawk]

With all this talk about realism... are we going to patch in instant death from being hit by a giant?

Because, really, that should leave any "realistic" hero just a smear on the ground.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Yes, if we can come up with a good way to do it. I haven't yet found a way that feels right.

On the other hand, a good Navigation skill is supposed to be a big benefit. Staying in the dungeon shouldn't be too profitable.

[buzzkill]

The only real reason for not returning to town is if you want to Plunge three levels.

Do you think it's worthwhile to give players an incentive to stay in the dungeon versus returning to town. I'd like to have a reason to remain in the dungeon. A reason to refrain from returning to town unless it's really necessary for survival.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

The only real reason for not returning to town is if you want to Plunge three levels.

[buzzkill]

Is there a compelling reason not to return to town every chance you get? Taking the down staircase from the dungeon is exactly the same (as far as game mechanics are concerned) as returning to town and taking the down stairs, correct?

[Mikko Lehtinen]

I've come to the conclusion that Halls of Mist needs another break away from Angband conventions. I'm probably going to remove shields, bows, and polearms from the game.

Pros:

• I can make equipment choices more interesting. Many more ways to make weapons and gauntlets different from each other.
• I think I can make the complete stat & skill system work much better, both mechanically and in flavour, with this reduced equipment set.
• The equipment system becomes actually realistic -- you have a sword in one gauntleted hand, a torch and a wand in the other. All the two-handed and hand-and-a-half weapons in the game start to make sense. In addition, sword & shield didn't really make sense for either Thornwild heroes or for dungeon adventuring. Having some realism is good for the mood I'm going after.
• I can choose a distinct time period for the weapon technology in the game: late Medieval. That's long swords with a two-handed grip & heavy armour. Templars practise martial arts that is close to what Johannes Liechtenauer taught in the 14th century. Even if all this wouldn't show in the game much, it helps me refine for myself what the setting is like. Inventing new pieces of flavour becomes more enjoyable.

[LostTemplar]

Instant actions are cool. I have a lot of them in my variant.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Another random thought... recovery proficiency should take no time at all. You call upon your reserves in a moment of weakness, and continue the fight without skipping a beat. Ditto berserk, maybe escape as well.

Yeah, good idea. I have actually considered this seriously before.