Halls of Mist 1.3.0

[ewan]

More randomish thoughts:

* Am I right to think that mist monsters can pick up objects and then vanish? That seems to be an error, if I am remembering the occurrence correctly. {OK, I see this was just raised. Yes, just have objects drop when the enemy vanishes}

* Concur with buzzkill that I would fairly often have >100 excess mana at the end of a level, and so I would pump up (biggest impact being to max out Absorb Hit, but also e.g. Resistance) before descending.

* Wands of transference are probably much more useful for nonspellcasters.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Today's version of the spell list looks like this. Again, a + after the spell means that it can be upgraded once by learning it again.

Arcane			Divine
------			------

(f)ireball +		(o)rb of draining +
(l)ightning bolt +	(y)ank
(a)cid arrow +		(w)ord of holiness +
(c)laws of winter +

(j)inx +		(s)oothe +

(d)etect monsters	(d)etect monsters
(i)lluminate		(i)lluminate

(q)uickness +		(g)uardian spirit +
(v)anish from sight	(u)nearthly might +
(x)eno-lore		(z)eal

(p)owder perfection	(e)nchant weapon +
(r)echarge		(m)etamorphosis
			(t)ruecraft
(b)link +
			(h)eal +
(k)nock			(n)ature's cure

• Jinx uses up a cursed item in your inventory. Lesser version permanently curses a single monster, greater version curses all monsters in sight.
• Quickness temporarily adds +3 or +7 to DEX and Speed.
• Xeno-Lore adds +7 to Lore and Aura. (Lore is the current name for Knowledge/Memory.) The practical effect of Xeno-Lore is that your Spellcasting, Alchemy, Navigation, Magic Device and Spell Save skills get a big boost.
• Powder Perfection adds +1 to powder's radius and +15 percentage points to hitting with it.
• Yank damages and stuns a creature and calls it next to you.
• Word of Holiness removes curse and taint and blesses you for a moment. The greater version also damages and scares undead (resist doesn't help).
• Guardian Spirit gives See Invisible and increases Spell Save and all resistances by +25. The greater version also improves Parry.
• Unearthly Might increases STR by +3 or +7.
• Zeal blesses you and allows to to counter-strike (with a sword it's called riposte) whenever you successfully Parry an attack. Designed for Templars that are best at Parry.
• Enchant Weapon increases a weapon's Offense bonus by 5 percentage points, up to +25%. The greater version sets the Offense bonus to +25% if lower, and gives a random brand to a non-ego, non-artifact weapon.
• Metamorphosis allows to assume a form that is familiar to you from earlier experience. You may choose to return back to your original form.
• Truecraft increases an amulet's or cloak's pval by one, up to +5.
• Nature's Cure cures disease and poison.
• Lightning Bolt is always a beam; Acid Arrow never beams. Fire is used only in Fireball, and Frost in Claws of Winter to attack one or two opponents next to you.
• The lesser version of Orb of Draining is a bolt, the greater version a ball.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

I like the idea for the spells. I think currently there are too many spells and many of them are not useful.

It was surprisingly easy to fit all important effects into 26 spells. Many effects can be combined. Word of Holiness removes curses and taint, and after an upgrade also damages and scares undead and demons.

The spell list is still changing all the time. One thing I want to make pretty common is permanent effects that cost lots of mana, it should be cool with Ironband mana. Crafting spells like Truecraft for boosting jewelry and cloak pvals, Enchant Weapon, Powder Perfection, Recharge. Metamorphosis is a long duration spell for assuming any form that is familiar to you from earlier experience.

I also like the idea for fewer classes, although it might be interesting to have subclasses - perhaps not available from the start, but becoming available when you reach a certain level.

Maybe. Or maybe just make races much more relevant. In my current design the classes don't define everything, and there's a lot of room for different races to shine. The addition of the Cunning stat also means that everybody can decide to be a backstabbing sneak if they want to.

A few more issues with mist monsters - when they pick up objects the objects are not dropped when the mist monster is killed. Perhaps they should not be able to pick up objects.

Right. Or they should drop items when they disappear.

It seems that breeding mist monsters become real monsters when they breed.

This shouldn't happen? Breeding monsters should breed mist monsters.

Also a question - when you have a mist unique, what happens after you kill them? Can you meet the real unique monster down the line or does it count as if you've killed that unique?

Killing a mist version doesn't count as really killing the unique.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Here's a big bug.. a (mist) energy hound just breathed for over 200 point of (resisted) damage. A few turns later it happened again. In retrospect, I should have saved the game and made a backup. Note the -718 HP in the second screen shot. That was from about 117 HP with (at least) 35% r Elec. FYI, there appears to be no way to view your resistances from the tombstone screen.

This is very evil. I'll try to find out why it happened.

[Squeak]

I like the idea for the spells. I think currently there are too many spells and many of them are not useful. I also like the idea for fewer classes, although it might be interesting to have subclasses - perhaps not available from the start, but becoming available when you reach a certain level.

A few more issues with mist monsters - when they pick up objects the objects are not dropped when the mist monster is killed. Perhaps they should not be able to pick up objects.
It seems that breeding mist monsters become real monsters when they breed.

Also a question - when you have a mist unique, what happens after you kill them? Can you meet the real unique monster down the line or does it count as if you've killed that unique?

[buzzkill]

Here's a big bug.. a (mist) energy hound just breathed for over 200 point of (resisted) damage. A few turns later it happened again. In retrospect, I should have saved the game and made a backup. Note the -718 HP in the second screen shot. That was from about 117 HP with (at least) 35% r Elec. FYI, there appears to be no way to view your resistances from the tombstone screen.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

A little peak to what I am thinking currently: a new spellcasting system, inspired by my favorite roguelike Larn.

Press m for the spell menu, and the spell's starting letter to cast it. Yes, there will be only 26 spells in the game (plus 14 upgrades).

If there's a + after a spell, it can be learned twice -- then you can press f for a small fireball, F for a big fireball.

Arcane					Divine
------                                  ------

(f)ireball +				(o)rb of draining +
(l)ightning bolt +			(y)ank
(a)cid arrow +				(w)ord of holiness
(c)laws of winter +
					(j)inx +
(d)etect monsters			(s)oothe +
(i)lluminate
					(d)etect monsters
(q)uickness +				(i)lluminate
(u)nholy strength +
(v)anish from sight			(g)uardian spirit +
					(t)rue sight +
(r)echarge				(z)eal
(p)owder perfection
(x)enogenesis				(e)nchant weapon +
					(m)ystify item
(b)link +
					(h)eal +
(k)nock					(n)ature's cure

Everybody can learn both arcane and divine spells from spellbooks. You'll find about 10 spellbooks in a typical game (boss fight will be on DL 30). Even a Warrior has a little mana.

Read an Arcane Spellbook to learn a random arcane spell or an upgrade to a spell you already know. If you read the book in a Circle of Knowledge, you get to choose from two options.

Read an Divine Spellbook to learn a random divine spell or an upgrade. If you read the book on a friendly altar, you get to choose from two options.

True spellcasters start with some spells and get bonus spells (of their own realm only) when they gain levels. You can always choose a bonus spell from two options.

Mage starts with Acid Arrow, Blink and Claws of Winter. Templar starts with Zeal. Shaman starts with Heal and Enchant Weapon.

I think five classes should be plenty:

Warrior
Rogue
Templar
Shaman
Mage

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Thanks!

Effects should probably end when you leave a level. And the player should heal to maximum.

I'll fix the Reality. (That sentence sounds rather grandiose.)

Wands of Transference have been quite useful to me, at least for non-spellcasters. You can aim them over the heads of enemies like fireballs.

I'll fix Rogue's selling bug too, thanks jujuben.

I should probably release a bugfix/balancing version before breaking everything apart again.

[buzzkill]

Even more Mist ramblings...

• I was able to topple a tree with a cudgel.
• I found 3 altars on DL2. (min depth 1)
• Next altar is on level 10. (min depth 5). No fountains yet... and now DL28, min depth 16 and still no fountains.
• Once I survive the first few levels, I find that I usually have excess mana through the late tens and teens, maybe even into the twenties (but I feel I do a pretty good job of not wasting it).
• Should "effect duration" spells carry over from one level to the next. I seem to recall it taking weeks to travel between levels. FYI, with my previous mid-level spellsword, I of into the habit of casting shield and infravision (with my excess mana) before descending.
• How about an option to auto pick up items (arrows) matching those in inventory (with confirm pickup on).
• If I hit a Mist-enemy with my weapon of reality and it suffers a status aliment, such as fear, it does not dissolve as it should. (actually I don't know if it anything to do with "fear:, but sometimes (rarely) monsters don't disappear, which is very bad if you're (rightfully) planning on something very dangerous not being there next turn.
• I've never found wands of transference useful. I think they would be cool if the beam could penetrate walls to yank ghostly things from walls, or to in effect phase from one room to another (assuming you have a means of locating a valid target through solid granite).

[jujuben]

Rogue starting exploit

Roll up a Rogue. Buy some arrows. Sell them back one at a time. As much free money as you have patience for.

Perhaps there should be a nonzero minimum selling value for brand new rogues.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Hi Holsety,

I couldn't fit information about their special abilities on the character sheet cleanly. It also seemed weird to have two different kinds of special abilities with different mechanics, proficiencies and Angel/Demon abilities. There was no flavour reasons for their removal -- in Mist, they would be inhabitants of Aether.

You didn't ask, but the Bard is gone because instruments were junk for everybody but Bards. I've spent lots of energy to make most items useful to everybody.

[Holsety]

Hey all.

Is there a reason for why Angels and Demons didn't survive the transition from FayAngband to Halls of Mist? Just curious.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

I think I want a somewhat realistic rule of thumb for parrying that is "good enough for movies". Then I'm deliberatively going to break that general rule with certain weapons to give different weapons a distinct personality.

For example, I want one two-handed sword that is for some mysterious reason very good at parrying.

Interesting equipment choices is the end goal, not realism.

[Mikko Lehtinen]

Without any special knowledge of the subject... wouldn't parrying ability be predicated on the type on incoming attack.

Realistically, yes.

But in most cases, I think being able to put your weapon in the attack's way fast and accurately helps. The weapon also needs to have enough mass.

Swords are better because they are evenly balanced. A warhammer has most of it's weight on one end, which is good for damage but bad for parrying.

Two-handed weapons are a bit clumsy because then you can't use your gauntleted off-hand for defense when a need arises (you could for example have an opportunity to take a grip of the opponents weapon or arm). But against very heavy hitters, you need two hands to parry the attack with enough strength. On average, hand-and-a-half swords are probably best. (At least in an underground environment where you can't use shields.)

[buzzkill]

Without any special knowledge of the subject... wouldn't parrying ability be predicated on the type on incoming attack.