Skills-Angband (Sangband)

[Bandobras]

Now I see I only have this problem in full-screen and only when changing fonts for "Display" whatever it means. Moreover, the list of available fonts is different in fullscreen and in windowed. But even choosing the common fonts crashes the game.

Edit: Moreover it only happens in the "Fullscreen, large map" mode. BTW, I test the various setting only after restarting the game.

Edit2: For font 16x16 it also happens in "Windowed, large map", but not for "Display", but for "Main Screen". In "subwindows" mode I cannot test it, because 16x16 is not available then.

Edit3: BTW, in "Fullscreen, windowed" I cannot change the main map font in any way --- it is displayed as "not visible".

Edit4: When in "Fullscreen, large map" I change the map font to 16x16, the game crashes only after I exit the options screen and the map is tried to be shown.

Edit5: Even stranger, all works if I edit config.txt manually.

Edit6: Thanks for your help. Here is my setup for anybody interested:

[Sangband]
Graphics = font
Sound = 0
Mouse = 0
Display mode = 0
Media quality = 3
Cursor shape = 0

ScreenLeft = 0
ScreenTop = 0
ScreenWid = 1600
ScreenHgt = 1200


[1600x1200 screen: Display mode 0, Term-0]
Visible = 1
WindowLeft = 0
WindowTop = 0
WindowWid = 1600
WindowHgt = 958
BorderLeft = 0
BorderTop = 0
BorderRight = 0
BorderBottom = 1
Font = 16x24xrb.fon
TileWid = 16
TileHgt = 24
Keys = 1024

[1600x1200 screen: Display mode 0, Term-1]
Visible = 1
WindowLeft = 208
WindowTop = 24
WindowWid = 1392
WindowHgt = 888
BorderLeft = 0
BorderTop = 0
BorderRight = 0
BorderBottom = 0
Font = 16x16x.fon
TileWid = 16
TileHgt = 16
Keys = 8

[1600x1200 screen: Display mode 0, Term-2]
Visible = 1
WindowLeft = 0
WindowTop = 958
WindowWid = 800
WindowHgt = 242
BorderLeft = 2
BorderTop = 2
BorderRight = 2
BorderBottom = 0
Font = 12x18x.fon
TileWid = 12
TileHgt = 18
Keys = 8

[1600x1200 screen: Display mode 0, Term-3]
Visible = 1
WindowLeft = 800
WindowTop = 958
WindowWid = 800
WindowHgt = 242
BorderLeft = 2
BorderTop = 2
BorderRight = 2
BorderBottom = 0
Font = 12x18x.fon
TileWid = 12
TileHgt = 18
Keys = 8

[1600x1200 screen: Display mode 0, Term-4]
Visible = 0
WindowLeft = 0
WindowTop = 0
WindowWid = 0
WindowHgt = 0
BorderLeft = 0
BorderTop = 0
BorderRight = 0
BorderBottom = 0
Font = 8x12x.fon
TileWid = 0
TileHgt = 0
Keys = 8

[1600x1200 screen: Display mode 0, Term-10]
Visible = 1
WindowLeft = 0
WindowTop = 0
WindowWid = 1600
WindowHgt = 1200
BorderLeft = 0
BorderTop = 0
BorderRight = 0
BorderBottom = 0
Font = 16x24xrb.fon
TileWid = 16
TileHgt = 24
Keys = 8

[CJNyfalt]

Well, the issue is more complex than I can help with. However your detailed bug report should help Leon track it down when he comes back next week.

[Bandobras]

I have several remarks after a quick game:
--- Restart based on current character is useless for me, because the stats and the weight of the character are different than of the ancestor. Consequently this saves me exactly two keystrokes.
--- I really miss the option "no connected stairs". I don't like to stair-scum, but the temptation is too great without this option and the game degenerates into a scum-fest at times.
--- It might be nice to give starting characters a scroll of WOR {90% off} so that diving from the very start is easier. Currently I have to go as deep as DL 3 and back to buy my first WOR with the quest's money. In other variants many classes start with equipment worth enough for a WOR or two.
--- I really like the fact that most bad shallow items are only {broken} and not {cursed}. It makes identifying by use so much less stressful, without making it totally boring (fighting with an unknown broken weapon is a surprise nasty enough).
--- I feel quite crippled by the lack of point-based character generation.
--- Autorolling for Weight would be nice, or perhaps base it on CON, similarly as in Un, with very little random variance.
--- A very professional variant, as ever.

[CJNyfalt]

- What's the deal with weight?
- Shouldn't the delayed level feelings stop you from scumming?
- I'm in favor of point-based character generation, but Leon said no.

[camlost]

I expect there is no point based generation to keep things a bit simpler, but I haven't heard anything special on it.

Weight is useful for bashing down doors, shield bashes, and how far "storms" and "winds" move you. Nothing else I notice in the code (p_ptr->wt).

You can still scum with, say detect enchantment, but as a mage, you can cast teleport and detect doors/stairs.

I would truly, truly love a WoR to start the game. I'd have to say that the lack of one lessens the game for me. I'd love to drop to dlevel 10 or 15 with my first dive with a wrestling giant spellcaster. It's loads of fun.

[Bandobras]

I expect there is no point based generation to keep things a bit simpler, but I haven't heard anything special on it.

If the problem is hapless newbies, they are still at a disadvantage, because the default character generation results in quite weak characters (especially if the newbie accepts already the first one). I would propose that the default would be point-based with a random distribution of points. Then hitting [Enter] would start the newbie with a reasonable character and later he would be able to start tweaking his characters more easily (no need for fumbling with birth options; BTW in recent Un character generation method is chosen from the starting menus).

Weight is useful for bashing down doors, shield bashes, and how far "storms" and "winds" move you. Nothing else I notice in the code (p_ptr->wt).

Shields is the thing for my Troll Barbarian. Bashing down doors is not bad, either. Admittedly weight is much more important for Shields-specialized Warrior or Paladin in O. Anyway, the crucial thing is, you cannot increase weight during the game, ever, so the starting weight is all you get.

You can still scum with, say detect enchantment, but as a mage, you can cast teleport and detect doors/stairs.

You can scum as a Troll Barbarian with Detect Magic talent (mere 40 points into Wizardry). Or you can just look for items or weak foes in the starting room (as Lost Souls in TOME do), or you can stair-scum for stairs down or up. For a time such tactics even seem exciting and fun, but then you walk away from the game bored and you don't know why. UnAndrew said once this problem can be elegantly overcome by introducing semi-persistent levels (as in Entro, IIRC). Each stairs lead to a different but fixed dungeon, so you get infinitely many dungeons just by finding new stairs in different branches. OTOH you don't get new dungeons just by going down and up. For Wizards with teleport it does not change much, but still teleport is more dangerous than stair-scumming.

[CJNyfalt]

There has been discussion of remaking the character generation in Sang completely. No decision has been made, but it seems that we will probably go for background question style stat generation. So, now is a good time to speak up about character generation ideas.

[K.I.L.E.R]

Well then, I believe we should have specialisation stat gen.
Ordinarily you try to get the highest stats possible.
I believe we should introduce generation of specialised character stats that have base stats of ten and 1 stat being exceptionally high (18/90 -> 21) with some specialised abilities.

[Fuma]

18/90 is 27, not 21.
And giving spellcasters 18/90 from the start is overkill in my opinion.
Besides, I like rolling up my characters instead of having all of them the same stats.

[K.I.L.E.R]

Please forgive my ignorance, but 18/90 = 27?

[Bandobras]

I don't know what you mean by '(18/90 -> 21)', but in variants with linear stat display option 18/90 = 18 + 90/10 = 27.

A problem I've stumbled upon: random seed is not saved after death or restored on birth. In the result I get the same sequence of rolled stats, the same shop's content, etc. for my chars. Perhaps related: I get only a little bit of the monster knowledge of my ancestors.

Edit: Things are changed and I even get different town layout (before that I got the same layout all the time) after I've removed the 1000.PLAYER savefile that was created after a fresh install. Now my character created based on the previous one has the same stats and weight as the previous one, so disregard my previous complaint.

[CJNyfalt]

Please forgive my ignorance, but 18/90 = 27?

18/00-09 = 18
18/10-19 = 19
18/20-29 = 20
18/30-39 = 21
...
18/90-99 = 27
....

[Bandobras]

I have a question I didn't see an answer to in the manual. Do I get the same increase when I spend 20 XP on burglary and then immediately 20 XP on disarming, than when I reverse the order?

Don't the rounding errors spoil the symmetry? If not, why doesn't the burglary cost go down to 0 when I invest a lot into Disarming? Is the 1 point lost, when I invest it in burglary in such a case?

Edit: related question: which sum affects the score: the cost of Disarming + 3/4 of the cost of Burglary or the cost of Burglary + 3/4 of the cost Disarming? In the manual the descriptions can be read either way...

[Arendil]

i didn't notice that at first, but I can't find current dungeon level number and character speed anywhere. It doesn't appear where it used to be i.e. at the bottom right of the main screen/window. Changing various display options doesn't change anything...do I miss something?

[CJNyfalt]

i didn't notice that at first, but I can't find current dungeon level number and character speed anywhere. It doesn't appear where it used to be i.e. at the bottom right of the main screen/window. Changing various display options doesn't change anything...do I miss something?

The level shows up correctly in the lower right corner for me. Speed only shows up if it's not zero. Maybe you use a display setting where something else, incorrectly, overlaps the status bar? Try tweaking the settings.