[FA] Radical changes

[Nick]

It's increasingly looking like the changes I've been planning to FAangband are just the tip of the iceberg. So here (in a fairly disordered form) are some of the possibilities:

• Nerf to teleportation, especially in wilderness (possibly achieved by bad consequences of teleporting)
• Nerf to digging (make granite permanent?)
• Smaller, more dangerous, dungeons with less gradual progression through levels
• Random dungeons (buildings, camps, whatever)
• Some degree of persistence
• Experience changes, make character level less important

Very interested to hear people's views, as always.

[Zikke]

[*]Smaller, more dangerous, dungeons with less gradual progression through levels

Would this mean that the player would be expected to level up in wilderness areas more?

Also, relating to random "camps" etc, that would be a really neat 1-level "dungeon" that could be found by the player out in the wilderness. For example, you would load a wilderness level and see a randomly generated small orc fortress with a down staircase, which would provide the player maybe a 1- or 2-level mini dungeon that is heavy in orcs and other creatures that one might find in an orc establishment. This would also be a good place for those Champion monsters I mentioned earlier, too, as a sort of Boss.

[Nick]

Would this mean that the player would be expected to level up in wilderness areas more?

Probably not - see the edited version of my original post

Also, relating to random "camps" etc, that would be a really neat 1-level "dungeon" that could be found by the player out in the wilderness. For example, you would load a wilderness level and see a randomly generated small orc fortress with a down staircase, which would provide the player maybe a 1- or 2-level mini dungeon that is heavy in orcs and other creatures that one might find in an orc establishment. This would also be a good place for those Champion monsters I mentioned earlier, too, as a sort of Boss.

This is exactly the sort of things I have in mind, and I like the boss idea - whether by having one of your champion thingies or whatever.

[buzzkill]

It's increasingly looking like the changes I've been planning to FAangband are just the tip of the iceberg. So here (in a fairly disordered form) are some of the possibilities:

• Nerf to teleportation, especially in wilderness (possibly achieved by bad consequences of teleporting)
• Nerf to digging (make granite permanent?)
• Smaller, more dangerous, dungeons with less gradual progression through levels
• Random dungeons (buildings, camps, whatever)
• Some degree of persistence

Very interested to hear people's views, as always.

Why nerf teleportation? It's dangerous as it is. However, being slowed or confused after teleportation would make it more dangerous.
I'd be OK with granite being non-diggable, but STM should still work. Maybe it could even be diggable with an ego digger and *great* strength. Eliminate tunneling, regardless of STR, without a diggers.
More mini dungeons is one thing I think would be a definite improvement to FA. Dungeons and too few and far between.
Semi-persistence sounds good. Is this aimed at stair scumming?

I worry about so many changes to a game that plays so well. I just hope you don't screw it up .

[Zikke]

This is exactly the sort of things I have in mind, and I like the boss idea - whether by having one of your champion thingies or whatever.

I mentioned the champion as a boss because the mini dungeons would be randomly generated and would probably match a certain area or depth equivalent, so it would be very difficult to keep finding unique bosses to put there, unless you modified an old unique that you already killed, like "Ghost of Azog". But at that point you might as well just use champions or random uniques and make it believable. Regional warlords would logically have smaller fortresses but they wouldn't be the famous ones.

[Zikke]

Or, you could theme these dungeons like your unique cavern levels and save certain uniques to only appear in that dungeon, but then you would run out of these mini dungeons which would make baby Jesus cry.










Because baby Jesus wants mini dungeons.

[Nick]

I worry about so many changes to a game that plays so well. I just hope you don't screw it up .

Well, 1.1.6 is a good game. And I'll try to get 1.2 bugfree, too.

Stuff is going to break. Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

Teleport will probably only get nerfed in wilderness.

Semi-persistence is only a vague idea at the moment.

[Nick]

I mentioned the champion as a boss because the mini dungeons would be randomly generated and would probably match a certain area or depth equivalent, so it would be very difficult to keep finding unique bosses to put there, unless you modified an old unique that you already killed, like "Ghost of Azog". But at that point you might as well just use champions or random uniques and make it believable. Regional warlords would logically have smaller fortresses but they wouldn't be the famous ones.

A possibility is to give some monsters a CHAMPION flag, and make sure each mini-dungeon has one, and maybe allow them to vary more than regular monsters. Orc captains might get it, for example.

[AnonymousHero]

Well, 1.1.6 is a good game. And I'll try to get 1.2 bugfree, too.

Stuff is going to break. Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

Yes, you can -- sort of. Vegan omelette. Unfortunately, it's extremely boring.

Semi-persistence is only a vague idea at the moment.

"Just" implement something like Hengband/Entroband.
It's the shizznit (as I believe the young people said roughly 5 years ago.)

[Storch]

• Nerf to teleportation, especially in wilderness (possibly achieved by bad consequences of teleporting)
• Nerf to digging (make granite permanent?)
• Smaller, more dangerous, dungeons with less gradual progression through levels
• Random dungeons (buildings, camps, whatever)
• Some degree of persistence
• Experience changes, make character level less important

.

Nerf teleportation - the only overpowered thing is Dimension door or what is the targeted teleport spell named. I tend to exploit it heavily. Teleportation in wilderness is dangerous and I avoid it, so I don't see your point.

Digging - good idea is to make digging less deterministic - surrounding walls have tendency to fall, digging creates areas of rubble, falling rocks can injure the player etc. StM should be more expensive. I absolutely agree that digging should be nerfed, it is too powerful as it is now.

Random dungeons - good idea.

Persistence - only if it serves some purpose. It is tempting thing to implement but against the nature of the game which all about RNG.

Experience and levels - I have heard of this before, someone proposed it also for V. I don't like this idea, but there are probably some good reasons behind it.

[Nick]

"Just" implement something like Hengband/Entroband.
It's the shizznit (as I believe the young people said roughly 5 years ago.)

That's one of the possibilities.

Nerf teleportation - the only overpowered thing is Dimension door or what is the targeted teleport spell named. I tend to exploit it heavily. Teleportation in wilderness is dangerous and I avoid it, so I don't see your point.

I don't know what I will do here - I need to get my wilderness model in place first, then work out how teleportation will work.

Persistence - only if it serves some purpose. It is tempting thing to implement but against the nature of the game which all about RNG.

Precisely. I am still planning for there to be plenty of randomness.

Experience and levels - I have heard of this before, someone proposed it also for V. I don't like this idea, but there are probably some good reasons behind it.

Again, I don't know how much change there will be - I just want to have a rethink.