Parody thread: How to keep DaJAngband from getting too hard..

[will_asher]

So I've been reading that long "How to make the game harder thread" The problem is I don't think the game needs to be made harder (in most ways) and yet I really like several of the ideas in that thread..

There are certain things that I think do need to be harder than V. I'm glad that the early game DJA (1st ~20 levels) is harder than in V because the early game in V is mostly boring. And there are certain aspects/abuses which should be harder/less effective which is why I made destruction not affect vaults (as much..*) in DJA. I also don't like the idea of 'got the immunty, now that attack effect is a complete non-issue' for things like confusion, blindness, and paralysis (which is why I added pandamonium fiends).
But in general, (especially in the mid-game), I'd like to make the game slightly easier and ease the jump in difficulty which occurs around dL40. I'm not real sure how to do that though. any suggestions?

* destruction doesn't affect vaults, but some earthquake effects can have partial effects (like opening the vault in place of STM). And the earthquake trap/monster spell can still affect vaults, though it has a smaller chance for each square to be affected.

PS: I've never won, never faced Sauron or Morgoth, and have gotten past dL60 about 3 or 4 times ever. I'd like to be able to win my own variant eventually, but that's really a different issue from keeping it from getting too hard. My primary problem is taking too many risks and being reluctant to escape the level.

[fizzix]

The easiest way to make the midgame easier is to make HP and SP track more with Clevel and less with Con or Int/Wis. Or even make the gain per Con a lot more linear as opposed to the current exponential.

Another change would be to make it easier to get extra blows with heavy weapons.

That being said, having won DJA twice, I don't particularly think the midgame needs to be any easier. Stat gain maybe, but that's just because it's boring.

[will_asher]

I'm probably just forget my original goal of making the game (slightly) easier and just try to keep it from getting too much harder. Because there a lot of ideas that I like (from others and from myself) which make the game harder.

[buzzkill]

I agree with fizzix. The DaJ mid-game is that it is a bit easier, or at least it seems that way compared to the early game.

I've never won, never faced Sauron or Morgoth, and have gotten past dL60 about 3 or 4 times ever.

Me too.

[Matthias]

The whole "unable to see mountain-sized ogre that is standing in the same fully lit room" thing comes to mind

[will_asher]

The whole "unable to see mountain-sized ogre that is standing in the same fully lit room" thing comes to mind

That's will be addressed in the next release. Each monster will have a size level in monster.txt between 1 and 8. Humans are size 4. Stealth is irrelevent for monsters size 6 or larger (except for hearing them when they're out of LOS), and penalized for size 5 monsters.

Also, you have to remember (and I have to find a way to remind the player in-game) that rooms are never fully lit in the dungeon. Even if the whole room is lit, it is dimly lit and not empty of places to hide. The dungeon map doesn't show all the details of the dungeon (maybe I should have more details described in-game with some text when you enter a room or something). That is why ranger chieftains and master thieves are able to hide so that you don't notice even when they are near you.

[PowerDiver]

That's will be addressed in the next release. Each monster will have a size level in monster.txt between 1 and 8. Humans are size 4. Stealth is irrelevent for monsters size 6 or larger (except for hearing them when they're out of LOS), and penalized for size 5 monsters.

Also, you have to remember (and I have to find a way to remind the player in-game) that rooms are never fully lit in the dungeon. Even if the whole room is lit, it is dimly lit and not empty of places to hide. The dungeon map doesn't show all the details of the dungeon (maybe I should have more details described in-game with some text when you enter a room or something). That is why ranger chieftains and master thieves are able to hide so that you don't notice even when they are near you.

That's fine if they are not moving. Once they are coming at you using ranged attacks it is absurd you cannot tell where they are to an accuracy of 10 feet. It's absurd even without the ranged attacks if they are moving at more than 1/4 normal base speed, regardless of their actual speed.

[will_asher]

That's fine if they are not moving. Once they are coming at you using ranged attacks it is absurd you cannot tell where they are to an accuracy of 10 feet. It's absurd even without the ranged attacks if they are moving at more than 1/4 normal base speed, regardless of their actual speed.

It'll be no problem to make them much easier to notice whenever they're using ranged attacks that give away their location (some spells wouldn't nessesarily do that). I don't want to penalize their speed though, becuase the PC can move at full speed without his stealth being penalized in the least.

[buzzkill]

That's will be addressed in the next release. Each monster will have a size level in monster.txt between 1 and 8. Humans are size 4. Stealth is irrelevant for monsters size 6 or larger (except for hearing them when they're out of LOS), and penalized for size 5 monsters.

Will there be AC adjustments based on relative size? Things bigger than you should be easier to hit. Things smaller than you should be harder. I'm guessing some of this is already figured into the AC (and would need to be removed), but it would be better if the base AC just represented armament, and then it were further modified by relative size (and other stuff).

The same could be done for relative speed. Something that moves much faster than you should be harder to hit.

Since DEX doesn't affect speed, maybe a DEX adjustment too, or is that too D&D?

Mostly unrelated, but I ran into this mis-feature. My blow glanced harmlessly off of a sleeping guardian naga, and yet the naga remained asleep. I'm thinking that getting whacked with a 16 lb. broad axe would at least wake it up.

[PowerDiver]

It'll be no problem to make them much easier to notice whenever they're using ranged attacks that give away their location (some spells wouldn't nessesarily do that). I don't want to penalize their speed though, becuase the PC can move at full speed without his stealth being penalized in the least.

The player's stealth does not make him invisible, not even the slightest bit hard to detect. It only stops sleeping monsters from waking up. All awake monsters have ESP. They know the exact position of the @ at all times. To be evenhanded, you'd have to give the player perfect ESP at all times.

My reasoning about speed is not related to noise. If you want to move from one hiding place to another, you have to wait until my eyes are diverted or I will see you. If you are crossing 10 feet in the time I cross 10, I can't help but see you. If I have extra speed, that only makes things worse since presumably I'm scanning faster.

We're not asking for evenhanded. We just want to be able to see a monster coming straight at the @ in a lit room. It's your variant, so you gotta do what you gotta do, but some of us will never be able to get over this aspect.

[will_asher]

The player's stealth does not make him invisible, not even the slightest bit hard to detect. It only stops sleeping monsters from waking up. All awake monsters have ESP. They know the exact position of the @ at all times. To be evenhanded, you'd have to give the player perfect ESP at all times.

There are awake and unaware monsters in DaJAngband, so all awake monsters do not have perfect ESP. The PC can be in a lit room with an awake monster and not be noticed by the monster (just like the monsters can).
Even those aware of you (depending on their position) may not be smart enough to find their way through the dungeon to get to you. I know that's only a function of imperfect pathfinding code, but it's a major disadvantage for the monsters which offsets their advantage of knowing where you are.

BTW, I'm thinking about having monsters be unable to follow your movements if you've teleported or if they haven't seen you recently.

My reasoning about speed is not related to noise. If you want to move from one hiding place to another, you have to wait until my eyes are diverted or I will see you. If you are crossing 10 feet in the time I cross 10, I can't help but see you. If I have extra speed, that only makes things worse since presumably I'm scanning faster..

In DND3.5 high level rangers get an ability called "hide in plain sight" which is exactly what it sounds like. In RPGs, very high stealth characters can evade notice while walking right past someone (depending on the GM obviously..). We're not talking about realism here.

We're not asking for evenhanded. We just want to be able to see a monster coming straight at the @ in a lit room. It's your variant, so you gotta do what you gotta do, but some of us will never be able to get over this aspect.

95% of the time (completely make-up statistic) you can see a monster coming straight at the @ in a lit room, but I want some monsters to be harder to notice sometimes. Monster stealth has been toned down significantly since I implemented it. But I want certain monsters to be stealthy, and in order for monster stealth to mean anything in a game where the PC has tons of methods of detection and illumination, we can't be realisic.

[Matthias]

95% of the time (completely make-up statistic) you can see a monster coming straight at the @ in a lit room, but I want some monsters to be harder to notice sometimes. Monster stealth has been toned down significantly since I implemented it. But I want certain monsters to be stealthy, and in order for monster stealth to mean anything in a game where the PC has tons of methods of detection and illumination, we can't be realisic.

Again I have no problem with not seeing stealthy monsters that are in the same lit room as me. The problem I have is that in my last game Ancalagon summoned Ancient Dragons in the lit room I was in and I didn't see any of them.

[will_asher]

Again I have no problem with not seeing stealthy monsters that are in the same lit room as me. The problem I have is that in my last game Ancalagon summoned Ancient Dragons in the lit room I was in and I didn't see any of them.

That's definetly a problem and won't happen in the next version.