Ranger spell review

[DavidMedley]

Seems to me that rangers are slowly taking on a more interesting and canon flavor of outdoorsmen, hunters and trackers. We can't tie them too closely to the Rangers of the North unless you want to restrict their race. And we shouldn't tie the class too closely to just one character, who happened to find Narsil on DL1. Legolas is of the ranger class, even though he's not a Ranger of the North. And for all we know, The Rangers might have mostly relied on bows.

There was a great suggestion to give rangers a Fletchery ability, which in practice just means they get more arrow drops. We're already calculating hearing range... Maybe Rangers could have an ESP-like ablitlity that functions within a certain hearing distance?

I think the class is really strong and the main problem is ranged cheese, not the class. The class is fun. Cheese is not.

[Voovus]

I agree with what @Estie wrote.

Also, it would be good to have some class that primarily relies on shooting. I don't mind whether this is Ranger or Archer (... or Amazon... ).

For what it's worth, in the olden days of Moria, the Ranger was a Warrior/Mage hybrid with no (or minimal) bonuses to missile weapons.

[archolewa]

@Thraalbee, @Pete:

I am not disagreeing with the sentiment. But why does it have to be exclusive for ranged weapons ?

One ranger wields a bow, another can wield a crossbow. You dont make the same exclusion for melee weapons:

The dunadan ranger should wield a longsword, doesnt mean my dwarf ranger cant wield an awl pike. Or a kobold rogue a MoD.

Given that launchers are already harder to come by than melee, it isnt good game ergonomics to place additional barriers. Especially given that the only (minor) melee barrier - blunt weapons only for priest - has been removed.

Adding insult to injury is of course that you also need the required ammo. Ranged weapons already have so many barriers, forcing Rangers to only be awesome with a specific class is overtuning in my opinion.

Now, I dont know that it needs to be extra shots for slings and xbows, if we want to make things interesting. You could do something like rangers dont need ammo for slings (they are really good at foraging for rocks for their sling), and xbows ignore some fraction of AC, so they end up being much more accurate, or they have an enhanced crit rate or something.

But I agree Rangers should get *something* for the other two classes of launchers.

[Estie]

@Thraalbee, @Pete:

I am not disagreeing with the sentiment. But why does it have to be exclusive for ranged weapons ?

One ranger wields a bow, another can wield a crossbow. You dont make the same exclusion for melee weapons:

The dunadan ranger should wield a longsword, doesnt mean my dwarf ranger cant wield an awl pike. Or a kobold rogue a MoD.

Given that launchers are already harder to come by than melee, it isnt good game ergonomics to place additional barriers. Especially given that the only (minor) melee barrier - blunt weapons only for priest - has been removed.

[Pete Mack]

I sorta feel that the light crossbow is a very blackguardly weapon. The heavy xbow is more for pure war, when you're up against plate armor. But for brigandry and thuggery, and just plain murder, the light crossbow is a fine weapon.

[Thraalbee]

Ranger is the embodiment of Aragorn which I find belong to the game. He is a hybrid for sure. xbow sems way off. adding sling however feels somewhat reasonable. A pure archer is fun (try frogcomposband!) and the slingmaster even more so. But do we need them in Vanilla? I would play them if they were there, but I feel no great need. I am ok with the ranger as it is now.

[Estie]

A typical ranger has rpoison long before he can cast herbal curing. Pstun is useful, but mostly for melee. Immunity from cuts would be less than shard resistance, yes ? Shard resistance is about the last one on the list to worry about.

The question is: is the intention for the ranger to rely on ranged attacks ? (the name sounding like it is, as we all know, coincidence).

If the answer is yes, then the current version does a bad job at that, at the very least when playing with randarts.
Launchers are rarer than melee weapons and needing specifically a bow to get the ranger advantage means youll end up as a melee fighter for most of the game. Given that the spell set, in particular decoy, is very conducive to melee fighting means its more often better to use the ranged slot as a stat boost, like a fighter.

Maybe that is the intention; but if not, then my first suggestion would be to apply the ranger extra shots to all types of launchers, not just bows. That way you have a better shot (pun!) at ending up shooting things.

As for the spell set: it would help if there was anything that only worked in conjunction with archery.

If the intention is adherence to pseudo-history, then of course Aragorn wasnt the archer - Legolas was. In that case remove the extra shots from ranger entirely and introduce the archer class - maybe as simple as a warrior with fewer hit points, less melee blows but more shots per round.

[Nick]

How about if Herbal Curing gave temporary RPois and PStun, and maybe even temporary immunity from cuts?

[Nick]

The one thing I was wondering, does it work as a stealth boost for sleeping monsters? It's an impossible test to accurately carry out in game play.

Effectively yes, because it reduces the amount of noise as you get further from the player faster, and the speed the monster wakes up depends on that.

[Selkie]

The one thing I was wondering, does it work as a stealth boost for sleeping monsters? It's an impossible test to accurately carry out in game play.

[Nick]

Does this mean that if you ping a monster from outside it's reduced seeing and hearing range it'll just stand there and take it?

Nope, as soon as you attack a monster your track-covering evaporates.

[Selkie]

Does this mean that if you ping a monster from outside it's reduced seeing and hearing range it'll just stand there and take it?

Not in my practical experience, but I can't answer for the code. As a purely defensive spell it seemed to only work reliably for me when I could outpace the monster and get at least 15 squares distance. It might work with a wand, where you have a much greater range. Launchers typically don't have enough distance.

[DavidMedley]

It does three things:

1. It reduces the distance at which monsters can see the player by a factor of 4
2. It reduces the distance at which monsters can hear the player by a factor of 4
3. It makes the player leave no scent trail

Does this mean that if you ping a monster from outside it's reduced seeing and hearing range it'll just stand there and take it?

[mrfy]

mrfy--
Ranger Extra shots aren't all that nerfed. Extra shots from bows and slings are a different story, but the ranger ass usually wants extra might instead.

You are correct, in that I should not be complaining about the class being changed but the general nerfing of extra shots. To me, this made it much harder and less interesting to play a ranger. Perhaps a middle ground could be reached.

[Pete Mack]

mrfy--
Ranger Extra shots aren't all that nerfed. Extra shots from bows and slings are a different story, but the ranger just usually wants extra might instead.