Ranger spell review

[Nick]

So what I went with in the end was:

• Pebbles/shots never break
• Bolts break a little less often (20% of time instead of 25%)
• Extra shots the same with all missile weapons
• Cure Poison replaced with Herbal Curing
• In place of Herbal Curing, rangers get Brand Ammunition at level 40

Druids' Herbal Curing spell remains where it is, but it has the added effect of nourishing to 80%, which should work nicely in combination with Rapid Regeneration.

[Pete Mack]

Rangers with buffs average about 75-80% against tough targets. So that is the equivalent of â…“ of an extra shot.

[MattB]

Would it break the game if, instead of extra shots, rangers *never* missed with a bow?
Seems like a nice buff which would help an early character without overpowering a late one.
Maybe at level 30 crits would become more likely.

[Pete Mack]

Why doesn't a ranger start with a longbow? Ever since damage scrolls became fairly rare, a (0,0) longbow hasn't been all that valuable.

[archolewa]

Thanks everyone for the excellent discussion, I am again amazed by this forum

I agree with pretty much all the points made. So here's my current thinking:

• Herbal Curing really is rubbish where it is. How about we just replace Cure Poison with it, in book 1? Probably just for rangers, I don't know what we do for druids.
• I'm inclined to agree that rangers should get the same bonuses for all missile weapons. This kind of loses the niceness of Create Arrows. Could we maybe add a later spell that creates bolts or shots (out of something else, or even out of nothing), so regular bows have a distinctness still?

Opinions on these, or other suggestions?

Not sure how feasible this is to implement, but shots could be made out of rubble: spell turns all rubble in line of site into shots. The quality could scale with either CL or DL.

"Oh man, I just found a rubble room! My ammo problems are *over*!"

Bolts could be made out of melee weapons, higher quality weapons get turned into higher quality bolts. If a melee weapon has brands, your ammo is guaranteed to have one of them.

I'd be inclined to just want one spell, that turns the appropriate object (or dungeon feature) into the appropriate item. Modern Angband is working really hard I think to avoid "dead" spells, and if you have three separate spells, two of them are going to be "dead" at all times.

This also, I think gives a bit of a unique flavor to each launcher and how it interacts with the ammo spell:

slings -> quality depends solely on DL. So getting quality ammo when you cast the spell is a bit more reliable, even if the launchers themselves are weaker.

crossbow -> Because of preserving one brand, and because melee weapons are common, you'll have no problem getting ammo, and you can pretty reliably get branded ammo.

bows -> Ok, this ones perhaps a bit boring, but hey you get extra shots as a class feature, so maybe it's ok for the ammo to be a bit boring!

[Estie]

Hadnt heard of those. I dont know, numenoran steel doesnt have the same ring to it as dragon-horn

[Nick]

While were at it...Ive had this idea for a long time now. Ill just throw it out:

There is a line on the song of Eärendil:

His bow was made of dragon-horn

which could give rise to a new bow type, the dragon-horn bow (x4), purple {, and rare similar to the purple melee weapon types.

And maybe we should revisit Numenorean steel bows...

[Estie]

While were at it...Ive had this idea for a long time now. Ill just throw it out:

There is a line on the song of Eärendil:

His bow was made of dragon-horn

which could give rise to a new bow type, the dragon-horn bow (x4), purple {, and rare similar to the purple melee weapon types.

[Nick]

I'd suggest breaking the symmetry between the three, so that different rangeders had a different feel to them.

Yes, I like this idea too. It's also made me think about other tweaks that might make for more interesting choices for missile combat:

• Maybe extra shots - at least a ranger's where they seem to represent increasing skill - should have a different effect depending on launcher type. There's only so much better one can get at reloading a heavy crossbow, but practiced users of regular bows and slings can get very much quicker than a novice.
• Maybe there should be a difference between how STR and DEX affect accuracy for different ranged weapons, with DEX more important for a sling and STR for a longbow, for example.

[Estie]

I'd suggest breaking the symmetry between the three, so that different rangeders had a different feel to them. For example:

Wand/Staff -> Arrows (quality depends only on item used)
Spell that takes no resources -> Bolts (quality depends only on clv)
Pebbles/Shots never break.

I appreciate that this would mean more work for Nick than three similar systems.

Sounds good. Nick, get to work.

[Voovus]

wand -> arrows
staff -> bolts
(non artifact) mithril item -> mithril shots

I'd suggest breaking the symmetry between the three, so that different rangeders had a different feel to them. For example:

Wand/Staff -> Arrows (quality depends only on item used)
Spell that takes no resources -> Bolts (quality depends only on clv)
Pebbles/Shots never break.

I appreciate that this would mean more work for Nick than three similar systems.

[Estie]

wand -> arrows
staff -> bolts
(non artifact) mithril item -> mithril shots

[Pete Mack]

@selkie
300hp is as much as 4.1 and earlier Paladin. It would change the class into a second paladin type, but with good ranged combat.

[Selkie]

[*]Herbal Curing really is rubbish where it is. How about we just replace Cure Poison with it, in book 1? Probably just for rangers, I don't know what we do for druids.[*]I'm inclined to agree that rangers should get the same bonuses for all missile weapons. This kind of loses the niceness of Create Arrows. Could we maybe add a later spell that creates bolts or shots (out of something else, or even out of nothing), so regular bows have a distinctness still?[/LIST]

Opinions on these, or other suggestions?

Couldn't you just make herbal curing heal 300HP and leave it where it is. This change would turn it into a decent enough spell, without getting close to the healing ability of a paladin.

I honestly don't mind that rangers get bow bonuses, it feels true to the class. But I really think the extra shot bonus should be doubled. At the moment it's a bit too insignificant.

[Nick]

Thanks everyone for the excellent discussion, I am again amazed by this forum

I agree with pretty much all the points made. So here's my current thinking:

• Herbal Curing really is rubbish where it is. How about we just replace Cure Poison with it, in book 1? Probably just for rangers, I don't know what we do for druids.
• I'm inclined to agree that rangers should get the same bonuses for all missile weapons. This kind of loses the niceness of Create Arrows. Could we maybe add a later spell that creates bolts or shots (out of something else, or even out of nothing), so regular bows have a distinctness still?

Opinions on these, or other suggestions?