do you ever use these spells?

[Sky]

i've come up with a list of spells i *never* use - often dont even bother learning them - and i was curious if anyone here has any practical uses for them (4.1.3 obviously), and, let me stress PRACTICAL, not *in theory*.

confuse monsters
hold monsters
wonder
polymorph other
mass sleep
door creation
earthquake
bedlam
scare monsters
sanctuary
every healing spell aside from Heal and CLW
priest's elemental brand

also of note:
unbarring ways
the single resist spells from scarabatrice

for example, mass sleep could be useful if you are surrounded by breeders .. in theory. but if you have messed up that badly and you could not clear the situation with stinking cloud, isn't it better to phase/teleport away?
Wonder is another spell that's not bad per se - it gives you a chance at acid ball when you are much lower in level - but with the cost of 10 mana, and high fail rate, you never have a chance to use it because 1. you are already low on mana 2. it's better to teleport away 3. it will likely fail 4. you couldn't kill the mob with bolts anyway.
It could only potentially get used for teh lulz once you are much stronger and at that point you don't need to use wonder anyway.

[Voovus]

Door Creation and Earthquake can be used to break/abuse LOS.

[wobbly]

Scare monster I use sometimes on hydra that are fast & like to get in your face. I guess there's an argument for using it on umber hulks too.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Confuse monster, definitely. Other than that, no.

[Hounded]

Very much dependent upon how fragile my character is but...

confuse monsters - Rarely (I hate chasing the erratic ones)

hold monsters - On occasion.

wonder - Never cast. Only use the wand at low levels.

polymorph other - Rarely. On the chance it works when you need it, seldom is the new critter an improvement.

mass sleep - I'm learning an appreciation for this. Sometimes it's nice to put them back to sleep so I can target individuals at my leisure again.

door creation - Nah (I see the potential but never use it)

earthquake - Nah (offends my sense of organization in the map)

bedlam - Nah

scare monsters - On occasion but things've got to be pretty bad before I resort to this.

sanctuary - Never bothered.

every healing spell aside from Heal and CLW - This sums it up at the end but it's nice to have the others as your character evolves.

priest's elemental brand - I'm always surprised when I remember I have brand spells. Then I forget before I might use it again.

[Nick]

This was one of the big reasons for the class rework in 4.2.

[Werbaer]

door creation

Door Creation is a very usefull spell for mages (0% fail).
It allows to do actions which aren't fail-proof, for example:
- cast create doors, then heal with a staff, a rod, or several CCW instead of a Heal or *Heal* potion
- When fighting Morgoth at level 45 or below, Mass Banishment doesn't have 0% fail rate. Better cast Create Doors first to block line of sight
- once i was too full and got gorged in the final when when i quaffed Heal potions. So i cast create Doors first, then drank potion(s), then cast Satisfy Hunger to remove gorged state, all while line of sight was blocked

[luneya]

i've come up with a list of spells i *never* use - often dont even bother learning them - and i was curious if anyone here has any practical uses for them (4.1.3 obviously), and, let me stress PRACTICAL, not *in theory*.

confuse monsters
hold monsters
wonder
polymorph other
mass sleep
door creation
earthquake
bedlam
scare monsters
sanctuary
every healing spell aside from Heal and CLW
priest's elemental brand

also of note:
unbarring ways
the single resist spells from scarabatrice

for example, mass sleep could be useful if you are surrounded by breeders .. in theory. but if you have messed up that badly and you could not clear the situation with stinking cloud, isn't it better to phase/teleport away?
Wonder is another spell that's not bad per se - it gives you a chance at acid ball when you are much lower in level - but with the cost of 10 mana, and high fail rate, you never have a chance to use it because 1. you are already low on mana 2. it's better to teleport away 3. it will likely fail 4. you couldn't kill the mob with bolts anyway.
It could only potentially get used for teh lulz once you are much stronger and at that point you don't need to use wonder anyway.

Confuse and hold monsters are better in 4.1.x than they were in older versions, but I still didn't use them much. Mass sleep used to be melee range only (and thus entirely useless--or am I confusing it with sanctuary which is still touch range and useless?), but by 4.1.3 it was changed to operate on full LOS. That would make it good if it were available earlier, but by the time you learn it at CL 24, you usually have better things to do to large groups of monsters. Similarly for Bedlam: it would be great if you had it early, but as a CL 25 dungeon book spell, it's pointless by the time you get it.

Scare monsters may be practical as a safer alternative to phase door for backing a monster out of melee range; I've used the 4.2 necromancer version for just that purpose several times. Unfortunately, it's a priest spell rather than mage, and priests don't mind melee as much as mages do. Still an option against monsters you shouldn't melee, such as those with acid attacks.

Earthquake is a poor man's *destruction*. If *destruction* were useful as anything but an emergency escape or a Morgoth-fighting strategy, earthquake would also be useful. However, I cannot think of a single monster not named Morgoth that I would want to fight in a destructed zone, so earthquake is not useful.

Polymorph is pretty useless. You wouldn't want to use it on anything that you can already kill, and anything you can't kill is likely to resist.

I actually ran an experiment where I edited class.txt in 4.1.3, setting Wonder to spell:Wonder:2:2:50:5, i.e., learnable at CL 2 and costing 2 mana, but with the fail rate at its normal value. After several games playing with the modified mage, I found that Wonder was useful in the early game, but fell behind to ordinary bolt spells as the player leveled up--basically the same usage pattern that we have with wands of wonder. Without the early game availability created by my modifications, Wonder is entirely useless.

Door creation is very useful. It guarantees that nothing will have LoS on you for a few turns, giving you an opportunity to perform several non-combat actions without the dreaded "It breathes. You die."

Priest elemental brand would be useful if it were available in the early game, but it isn't. The CSW/CCW spells, however, are very useful in the early and midgame. Until you can cast heal effectively, these are your only alternatives to potions for in-combat healing. If you're not using Orb as your main offense--either because you can't cast it reliably yet, or because you've found a really awesome melee weapon--you should be using these frequently.

[Sphara]

Door creation is massively useful.

Beside the topic:
I don't understand, however, the function of any door destruction spells/items in the game. What benefit can you gain from destroying doors? Having a stuck door blocking the way while running away?

[archolewa]

Door creation is massively useful.

Beside the topic:
I don't understand, however, the function of any door destruction spells/items in the game. What benefit can you gain from destroying doors? Having a stuck door blocking the way while running away?

There have been a couple of times where there's a nasty melee monster on the other side of a door that I've wanted to go through. In those cases I've destroyed the door from a distance, so that I can soften them up with ranged attacks.

However, I didn't use Door Destruction, but rather Stone to Mud. Stone to Mud *also* destroys doors, and more, so Door Destruction has still been pretty useless to me.

[Sky]

...then cast Satisfy Hunger to remove gorged state...

you can do that ?



also, @luneya CLW cures more than any other spell. Aside from the lower fail rate, you just get more hp per mana.

[DavidMedley]

This was one of the big reasons for the class rework in 4.2.

I can feel the facepalm. "Gee, 4.1.3 has a lot of useless spells. I wish someone would spend their precious time to streamline the spellbooks!"

[Sky]

tbh i think Nick got carried away; sure, a lot of the spells .. some of the spells aren't useful, but from there to going down to 3 spellbooks ... a bit extreme.

[luneya]

you can do that ?



also, @luneya CLW cures more than any other spell. Aside from the lower fail rate, you just get more hp per mana.

Yeah, but in combat, hp per turn is what matters most. Also, CCW removes poison, which CLW doesn't. The really useless priest spell is their version of neutralize poison. The only reason ever to cast that spell is if you're poisoned and haven't learned CCW yet.

[Egavactip]

Almost all are useless. Door Creation, however, is extremely useful.

The single resist spells are useful if you are mana-limited.

I have used Earthquake once or twice in desperate but successful attempts to get away from a Horridly Powerful Monster by blocking its path to me. That's about it. Although it can create some cover if you have a pack of hounds or other things that can breathe on you.

i've come up with a list of spells i *never* use - often dont even bother learning them - and i was curious if anyone here has any practical uses for them (4.1.3 obviously), and, let me stress PRACTICAL, not *in theory*.

confuse monsters
hold monsters
wonder
polymorph other
mass sleep
door creation
earthquake
bedlam
scare monsters
sanctuary
every healing spell aside from Heal and CLW
priest's elemental brand

also of note:
unbarring ways
the single resist spells from scarabatrice

for example, mass sleep could be useful if you are surrounded by breeders .. in theory. but if you have messed up that badly and you could not clear the situation with stinking cloud, isn't it better to phase/teleport away?
Wonder is another spell that's not bad per se - it gives you a chance at acid ball when you are much lower in level - but with the cost of 10 mana, and high fail rate, you never have a chance to use it because 1. you are already low on mana 2. it's better to teleport away 3. it will likely fail 4. you couldn't kill the mob with bolts anyway.
It could only potentially get used for teh lulz once you are much stronger and at that point you don't need to use wonder anyway.