Minor: 4.2.1 - Creeping coins values are different from real coins

[drquicksilver]

It's really obvious when mithril/adamantine coins are going to turn out to be creeping because they are worth much less than real piles of coins - say, around the 400-500 mark where the real ones are more likely to be 2000 or 4000.

Not sure if that's related to the no-sell boost?

It also seems slightly harsh in that killing the monster is much less lucrative than it perhaps it ought to be?

[luneya]

That's correct, yes. Creeping coins are sized to what coin stacks would be in a selling-enabled game. Making the game detect whether selling is on when generating creeping coins monsters would require a huge change (expensive both in coding labor and in the processing load of running the game) for little benefit.

I wouldn't object to increasing the creeping coins value to that of a no-sell coin stack (regardless of whether selling is enabled). It's not like giving the player some extra cash makes that big a difference in the game.

[wobbly]

Making the game detect whether selling is on when generating creeping coins monsters would require a huge change (expensive both in coding labor and in the processing load of running the game) for little benefit.

I doubt it. It's just checking an option & multiplying a number.

[Monkey Face]

This does encourage a no selling playstyle (which I support) since someone playing a no selling game can more easily determine whether it is likely a monster or not and use that in their determination as to whether or not to fight it. Increasing the gold value to match no selling levels would give the people playing with selling the advantage here. So my vote is to leave it as is.

[Huqhox]

This does encourage a no selling playstyle (which I support) since someone playing a no selling game can more easily determine whether it is likely a monster or not and use that in their determination as to whether or not to fight it. Increasing the gold value to match no selling levels would give the people playing with selling the advantage here. So my vote is to leave it as is.

I think the idea would be to only increase the value if no selling was on, thereby giving no advantage (and really it's not an advantage, its an information leak)

This does seem like a good hole to plug to me, and really just a check of the options at the point of monster creation so simple too

[DavidMedley]

This does encourage a no selling playstyle (which I support) since someone playing a no selling game can more easily determine whether it is likely a monster or not and use that in their determination as to whether or not to fight it. Increasing the gold value to match no selling levels would give the people playing with selling the advantage here. So my vote is to leave it as is.

And I like mages and hate priests so I support removing all priest spells and giving them to mages!

[Nick]

Actually, I think the main issue here is that adamantite is the most valuable coin type, and creeping adamantite is native to DL37, so it's going to stand out. I've moved some stuff around to (I think) make the calculations more consistent, but I think there's always going to be a problem here.

[DavidMedley]

I don't see why the monster has to be upgraded from copper to adamantite or whatever. Why can't it remain copper, just 5x as many?

[Nick]

I don't see why the monster has to be upgraded from copper to adamantite or whatever. Why can't it remain copper, just 5x as many?

That's what it does, and what the original complaint is about, I think.

The thing is that creeping coins are generated by picking the monster, and then giving it an amount of gold appropriate for the level, in the specified currency. But when random (unmimicked) money is generated, the amount is decided based on the level as before, and then the currency is chosen based on the value. So if you generate creeping copper coins at level 50, they'll get a level-50-sized amount, but in copper instead of in opals or something.

[Sky]

Actually, I think the main issue here is that adamantite is the most valuable coin type, and creeping adamantite is native to DL37, so it's going to stand out. I've moved some stuff around to (I think) make the calculations more consistent, but I think there's always going to be a problem here.

i dont know why but i can tell 95% that it's a mob and not coins with just a glance. Call it magical intuition, but i can, and always do.

[sffp]

I fire an arrow at the gazebo

[PowerWyrm]

Making the game detect whether selling is on when generating creeping coins monsters would require a huge change (expensive both in coding labor and in the processing load of running the game) for little benefit.

I fixed that for my variant: it's one line of code.

[PowerWyrm]

I implemented commit 0476cd0 today and it made things far worse. Now when you dive around 500ft you see 150 coins worth of silver and 150 coins worth of mithril, and you know immediately that the former is real and the latter is a mimic. I'll revert that change, because the original system was much better.

[Nick]

I implemented commit 0476cd0 today and it made things far worse. Now when you dive around 500ft you see 150 coins worth of silver and 150 coins worth of mithril, and you know immediately that the former is real and the latter is a mimic. I'll revert that change, because the original system was much better.

OK, I believe you, I've done the same.

[PowerWyrm]

The thing is that creeping coins are generated by picking the monster, and then giving it an amount of gold appropriate for the level, in the specified currency. But when random (unmimicked) money is generated, the amount is decided based on the level as before, and then the currency is chosen based on the value. So if you generate creeping copper coins at level 50, they'll get a level-50-sized amount, but in copper instead of in opals or something.

Yes that is exactly the problem. To fix this properly, the type of coin should be set first and value deducted from the type. This means keeping a max value per level but removing the min value, so you can still get copper piles at high level).