Food and Fighting

[Egavactip]

Well, this thread unfortunately got completely hijacked.

[DavidMedley]

Maybe the food burn rate should be higher?

What do you think of this idea?

[Voovus]

What do you think of this idea?

I'm fairly certain I've already voiced my opinion on food in an earlier thread. But as these things go stale:
- I find hunger tedious,
- I find gorging tedious and annoying, to the degree that it has put me off the new Angband versions,
- I don't think tweaking the numbers is going to make the problem go away.
>99% of the time, food is just a thing to keep track of and micromanage. Not fun.

The new food item names add a bit of atmosphere, but I actually prefer Moria's rat skeletons and broken sticks, as those also added flavour but could be totally ignored.

[Sphara]

Basically everything Voovus said, except I still play new versions.
My solution is just not to carry food at all. I may carry some at the beginning but as soon as the first inventory decision comes up, food is the first to go and never to be looked back. Can make an exception with some beneficial mushrooms.

[wobbly]

I also agree with Voovus. Particularly about the rodent skeletons. Removing them was the worst decission in angband history.

[archolewa]

Crazy thought: What if potions *decreased* satiation instead of increasing it? The justification could be that healing potions basically use your body's energy to fuel the healing. The more powerful, the bigger the satiation penalty.

This has a few properties:

1. It punishes players for abusing CLW like the current gorged mechanic.
2. It incentivizes carrying food, especially food that sets your satiation to a particular level.
3. The player has a way other than resting to protect against and recover from it.
4. It introduces another factor to consider when deciding whether to pop a healing potion or escape.

Effectively satiation becomes stored healing rather than just a timer.

We could even remove the penalties for low satiation and just make it so that each type of healing potion has no effect below a certain level.

Or keep the starvation penalties if we want to be mean.

[Huqhox]

Crazy thought: What if potions *decreased* satiation instead of increasing it? The justification could be that healing potions basically use your body's energy to fuel the healing. The more powerful, the bigger the satiation penalty.

This has a few properties:

1. It punishes players for abusing CLW like the current gorged mechanic.
2. It incentivizes carrying food, especially food that sets your satiation to a particular level.
3. The player has a way other than resting to protect against and recover from it.
4. It introduces another factor to consider when deciding whether to pop a healing potion or escape.

Effectively satiation becomes stored healing rather than just a timer.

We could even remove the penalties for low satiation and just make it so that each type of healing potion has no effect below a certain level.

Or keep the starvation penalties if we want to be mean.

That sounds like an idea worth testing out, see how it plays

[fph]

Crazy thought: What if potions *decreased* satiation instead of increasing it?

+1, I like this.

[Nick]

Crazy thought: What if potions *decreased* satiation instead of increasing it? The justification could be that healing potions basically use your body's energy to fuel the healing. The more powerful, the bigger the satiation penalty.

This has a few properties:

1. It punishes players for abusing CLW like the current gorged mechanic.
2. It incentivizes carrying food, especially food that sets your satiation to a particular level.
3. The player has a way other than resting to protect against and recover from it.
4. It introduces another factor to consider when deciding whether to pop a healing potion or escape.

Effectively satiation becomes stored healing rather than just a timer.

We could even remove the penalties for low satiation and just make it so that each type of healing potion has no effect below a certain level.

Or keep the starvation penalties if we want to be mean.

I agree, this is an interesting idea. What do others think?

[Hounded]

I like it. Has an intuitive logic and can be balanced to keep the food aspects relevant. Would recommend something in the description of the potion(s) to alert to the effect of increased consumption.

[Cuboideb]

Dont forget your lembas before entering dlvl 100 !

[Sphara]

Personally, I would still chain-drink CLW:s, but I'd also carry food. This change would also require good supply of food for endgame fights.

As long as the goal is to make food meaningful, this would be a lot better system than the current one. Even if it didn't turn me into a fan of nutrition mechanic overnight, the idea is very good.

+1

[Sky]

i dont know what's it like in 4.2 but in 4.1 every class aside from warrior has a food spell, so potions giving you hunger isn't really a solution, because to fix it all you need to do is cast a single, low level spell, and you don't even need an inventory slot for it.

[archolewa]

i dont know what's it like in 4.2 but in 4.1 every class aside from warrior has a food spell, so potions giving you hunger isn't really a solution, because to fix it all you need to do is cast a single, low level spell, and you don't even need an inventory slot for it.

In 4.2 only Druids and Rangers have the food spell.

[whartung]

i dont know what's it like in 4.2 but in 4.1 every class aside from warrior has a food spell, so potions giving you hunger isn't really a solution, because to fix it all you need to do is cast a single, low level spell, and you don't even need an inventory slot for it.

Well, the singular issue here is that it's readily remedied at the cost of an action (since if this is the case, you will likely just carry food, and food is ubiquitous).

That's what makes the mechanic annoying. 99.999% of the time, it's just that -- annoying.

The complaint about folks gorging on potions is a combat problem.

If gorging potions is the only way to survive sustained combat. It's not even a "get out of a bad situation" issue, some monsters will simply do more damage to you than you can sustain, so healing is a requirement. You're supposed to go "toe to toe" (whether that's in your face melee, or shooting and scooting) with the monsters until they're dead, and, even "properly played", you can't do that without healing.

And for many classes, that healing is potions.

it's one thing if healing was for escape. "Boy, he just whacked me hard, I should heal enough to take another 1 or 2 blows, and hope I survive long enough for my scroll/rod/spell/staff/wand to get me out of trouble." We've all been in that situation, heal or escape.

But, no, at least not for a warrior. Walk up to them, bash their face in, and quaff big enough healing pots to give you a few more whacks at the monster with the intent that they run out of life before you do.

At least most monsters in the game don't heal on their own. You can beat one down to 50%, and then teleport (you or them) and hopefully come back all fresh, while they're still lingering at 50% for another try at them.

But, healing in combat is by design.