My Thoughts on 4.2

[DavidMedley]

Hello! Angband player going back to around 2005. I'm creating this thread to post my feedback, for whatever it's worth.

EDIT: I'm also a software and game developer. I am considering committing significant resources to developing something with Angband-like features. My only published game to date is a card game that you can learn about here:

http://ratherfungames.com/

[DavidMedley]

Necromancer

I have a cl 20 high elf necromancer, and I ran a Dunedain up to 10 before rebuilding. At first I thought the class was terrible. But now I like it. It is very different for sure. You have to get used to the dark. After a while, though, you can cast low level spells reliably even in the light. The class has a bit more HP than a mage and is better over time in melee. I'm not saying the class is more powerful necessarily, but it's playable and novel.

Does darkness inhibit dungeon monsters in any way? Seems like that would be a nice effect to go along with Necros having to hide in the shadows all the time. But instead it seems like it blinds me and doesn't affect them at all! Infravision is why I switched from Dundain to High Elf - it's very helpful but doesn't have enough range.

Tap Unlife is pretty cool, when an undead is around. Right now I'm using a "cursed" weapon which summons undead from time to time heh. Generally there aren't enough undead around to make this spell a game changer.

Noxious Fumes is excellent. Would be great if it was a ball, of course. The self-poison isn't as bad as I thought it would be. I carry a Rod of Curing right now and that solves it. Occasionally I poison myself when I can't cure it and it's not that bad.

Disenchant is very powerful. Interesting damage dice: 2d(PLAYER_LEVEL:* 2 + 10), so every level increases the damage by 2 points on average, but the variance is very high. Nerfing enemy spellcasters seems to work very well.

Hopefully I'll add some thoughts on this class as I level.

[DavidMedley]

Races

I can't understand why the races have been evened out in XP. Are they truly equal? Is there really a niche for Kobolds?

[DavidMedley]

Pathfinding Crash

I've had the game crash when using pathfinding in town. I know how to get it to happen, if any devs want a screenshot. Happily I've never had it happen in the dungeon.

[DavidMedley]

Druid/Race Combo

What are the ideal Druid races? Thematically seems like it should be elves, but their WIS penalties seem to be quite a hindrance. Dwarf druid? I can't see a dwarf wanting to do something so namby pamby. Hobbits also seem thematically like good druids... moreso than mages or necromancers to me.

[DavidMedley]

Reduced Spellbooks

I think I like the reduction in spellbooks. But why stop there? Why do casting classes even need a book to cast a spell? Can't recall ever seeing it in Tolkien. In the game, why should casting classes have less inventory spaces?

I think it would be cool to have books to learn spells from, and "weapons" that are actually casting implements. Starting equipment for mages: wizards staff that's kinda heavy, doesn't do much damage, but gives you +1 INT for casting only. Or priests could have a similar item that's a pendant/necklace.

I know this is going well beyond the 4.2 build, but I think it would be a huge improvement.

[Diego Gonzalez]

What are the ideal Druid races? Thematically seems like it should be elves, but their WIS penalties seem to be quite a hindrance. Dwarf druid? I can't see a dwarf wanting to do something so namby pamby. Hobbits also seem thematically like good druids... moreso than mages or necromancers to me.

Im currently playing a dwarf druid. Its fun!!! Spells and melee. I use stone to mud a lot, so he is some kind of miner-druid

[fph]

I think I like the reduction in spellbooks. But why stop there? Why do casting classes even need a book to cast a spell? Can't recall ever seeing it in Tolkien. In the game, why should casting classes have less inventory spaces?

Balance. A warrior has to lug around staffs, rods and potions to get the same effects you get via spells. So, if you eliminate spellbooks, it's actually warriors that end up having fewer slots available. Casters are already at an advantage like this, because a single spellbook serves multiple purposes.

~
I think it would be cool to have books to learn spells from, and "weapons" that are actually casting implements. Starting equipment for mages: wizards staff that's kinda heavy, doesn't do much damage, but gives you +1 INT for casting only. Or priests could have a similar item that's a pendant/necklace.

There are already amulets of wisdom, and casters already use weapons as "stat-sticks" for most of the game, effectively. The major change that you suggest is that these should be part of your starting gear. Currently, it's not like that, but there are intrinsic class plusses and minuses to stats, which serve the same role, with the only difference that these bonuses are not tied to an item.

[Pete Mack]

What fph said: you will stsrt finding basic stat sticks around dl 20 (or ealier if you are lucky.) Weapons of *Slay* Animal give extra INT, as do many artifact weapons. Other ego weapons give other stats, and Defender gives stealth and regen, which is often more useful than a point or two of INT.

[Derakon]

It occurs to me that "number of inventory slots" is a potential way to balance classes. Maybe nobody needs any inventory slots, but mages are bad at carrying things so they have -2 slots, and warriors are awesome at carrying things so they get +2 slots.

[Pete Mack]

It is the racial EXP penalty that mattered. The class penalties never made a lot of sense. Picking gnome vs high-elf was a matter of trade-offs when HE mage took so much longer to level.

[Nick]

What are the ideal Druid races? Thematically seems like it should be elves, but their WIS penalties seem to be quite a hindrance. Dwarf druid? I can't see a dwarf wanting to do something so namby pamby. Hobbits also seem thematically like good druids... moreso than mages or necromancers to me.

It's funny you should mention this

I have done pretty much exactly this for FAangband races - elves are high WIS, dwarves are high INT. This is not changed in Angband because I formed the belief that upending the races would upset too many people.

[Hounded]

It occurs to me that "number of inventory slots" is a potential way to balance classes. Maybe nobody needs any inventory slots, but mages are bad at carrying things so they have -2 slots, and warriors are awesome at carrying things so they get +2 slots.

I think that the handling of the strength stat and item weights does this effectively. You want to be a high-Int Wizard off the get-go you're not gonna be able to haul a lot of chaff around. Conversely, warrior-types which are dependent upon strength have that greater capacity.

hmmm... wonder how hard it would be to incorporate a "Bag of Holding" into Angband.

[Derakon]

I think that the handling of the strength stat and item weights does this effectively. You want to be a high-Int Wizard off the get-go you're not gonna be able to haul a lot of chaff around. Conversely, warrior-types which are dependent upon strength have that greater capacity.

You're right that this takes care of things in the midgame, but the inventory slot limit is a much bigger deal in the late game when everyone has more or less arbitrary weight capacity.

I mean, I guess you could also make the weight capacity constraints much more rigorous, but then you're debuffing physically weak races instead of mechanically powerful classes.

[DavidMedley]

im currently playing a dwarf druid. Its fun!!! Spells and melee. I use stone to mud a lot, so he is some kind of miner-druid

Heh yeah that's cool