Angband 4.2.0

[archolewa]

What if Protection from Evil granted a damage reduction against evil, like that one suit of armor Belegennon, which grants +5 damage reduction (though Belegennon reduces all damage, not just damage from evil creatures)?

It's also I think much easier to balance than the current repulsion, because it's more of a continuum. It could also grant partial resistance against draining if you wanted to keep the benefit of "attacks that get repulsed can't do their other nasty things."

Even if it scaled slowly and/or topped out early, it would never wear out its welcome because every little bit helps? Sort of like Bless and Heroism.

Heck, even if we replaced the repulsion with partial draining protection, it'd probably be a worthwhile spell. And it would let the paladin be *even more* flexible when it comes to equipment. Maybe it tops out at 75% draining protection for CL 50. This would also be much easier to balance than the binary repulsion we have now.

[wobbly]

What is the math, currently? Would chance of repulsion = CL/(CL+ML) be too overpowered? What about CL/(CL+2*ML)?

if (monster_is_evil(mon) && p->lev >= rlev &&

				    randint0(100) + p->lev > 50) {

The issue is it does nothing against anything of depth > 50. It actually catches about half the ancient dragons? They are the cut-off mark, so it goes from fairly effective against ancient blue to nothing against ancient black.

CL/(CL+ML) is 1/3 against Morgoth which is pretty potent.

Edit: Its also not doing much unless you are grinding, or hitting soft targets. If your depth is > then cl anything native to your depth is unaffected.

[DavidMedley]

The current implementation seems fundamentally unbalanceable -- if it's useful, then it's too good. So it needs to work differently to be usable.

What is the math, currently? Would chance of repulsion = CL/(CL+ML) be too overpowered? What about CL/(CL+2*ML)?

[archolewa]

... did prot evil from 4.1.2 work the same??
i thought it just gave you a buff, like Blessing.

It did, and it was pretty useless then too for a paladin. Slightly more useful for a priest, because a priest has more SP and better fail rates sooner, but still not great. I t kind of went unnoticed (at least to me) because so much of the paladin's spell list was redundant or useless already. Now that Nick has tightened up the spell list, Protection from Evil's lack of utility is much more obvious.

[Sky]

... did prot evil from 4.1.2 work the same??
i thought it just gave you a buff, like Blessing.

[Derakon]

Something that just occurred to me re: Protection from Evil: it works similarly to Glyph of Warding, except that it only affects evil monsters. So why not make it basically a "worn" Glyph? That is, it protects against all evil attacks, but each such attack has a chance to break the spell, with the chance depending on the monster's level (or possibly the monster's level vs. the player's level).

The current implementation seems fundamentally unbalanceable -- if it's useful, then it's too good. So it needs to work differently to be usable.

Temporary resists are a reasonable idea as well.

[archolewa]

Just finished my first successful 4.2.0 game. I was running a paladin, and have some feedback for that class.

First, I'm really digging the Paladin's new, much more focused spell list. I made good use of just about every spell (except the brandings, because a young gold dragon dropped Fingolfin's sword on floor 42...), and in general I was very happy with it. Just a few criticisms:

1. Protection from Evil - I found this spell to be pretty much useless. By the time I had enough mana, and a low enough spell failure rate to make this worth casting I was well past the point where monters of a lower level posed any sort of threat. If we want to keep this spell, I really think we should do something like make the effective level of the repulsion scale based on the paladin's Wisdom. For example, maybe a level 50 Paladin with maxed Wisdom is considered level 100 for the purposes of the spell. That way at the end game (assuming you have enough +Wis items), pretty much everyone except Morgoth can be repulsed. Not as good as Runes of Warding, but still not just taking up space.

2. Enchant Armor - This came way too late to be all that effective. I used it a few times, because I got *garbage* cloak drops, so my poor Elven Cloak of Stealth was in pretty sorry shape by the time I got this spell. If we put this where Protection from Evil currently is, I think it would be a much more useful spell.

Honestly though I kind of think we should just replace both of these spells with two spells that put temporary resistances to your character's shield (basically the armor equivalent of the temporary brand spells). Maybe resistance to Darkness where Protection from Evil is now, and Protection from Nether where Enchant Armor is now. Note: These would be temporary *armor* resistance, so it wouldn't stack with resistances on your armor like normal temporary resistance does. Like the brands, they would basically let you patch holes and give you equipment flexibility, which feels like the Paladin's strength these days.

This could be confusing though because it breaks the temporary-permanent rule stacking rule. Don't know if that's worth doing.

3. Single Combat - A *wonderful* spell, especially for dealing with monsters who summon (like you know almost all the really dangerous uniques, and the only two monsters in the game you *have* to defeat). However, I'm wondering if it might be a bit too wonderful. It's basically an always-on, cast-for-free Mass Banishment, and sure you don't get to run away either, but nobody can one-shot a paladin by themselves unless the player lets themselves get really low. This probably needs to be nerfed some. A few possibilities:

a. The spell drains mana from the paladin every turn its active. Not much of a debuff in the final fights when you have a ton of mana potions, but it does give you one extra thing to keep a very close eye on. You really don't want your mana to run out and dump you amongst a horde of dragons at an inopportune time.

b. Summoning still doesn't work, but it does have a chance of canceling single combat (the chance would presumably scale based on level and wisdom?).

c. The spell just has a limited duration. This one is the least interesting to me personally.


Anyway, just food for thought. I had a ton of fun, keep up the good work!

[fph]

I chose randarts in 4.2.0 and I came up with this.

I already thought Wormtongue boots were quite overpowered because of the double movement, but this item takes movement speed buff to whole new level. +30 speed for running purposes and turncount adds in every fourth step.

I should probably try a massive turncount run with the game I have in hands.

Boots of pillar-dancing +3 --- I guess this takes "shoot and duck behind a corner" tactics to a whole new level.

[Pete Mack]

@Diego--
That is a fairly common choice with standard artifacts, too. (Shield of preservation being a second option.) Crown of Might is a very powerful ego item.

[Diego Gonzalez]

Thanks! I opted to wield a crown of might to melee Morgoth.

[Derakon]

In my current game, dwarf druid, my randarts have a noticeable lack of sustains. It was made that way?

Just one game, I'd call that bad luck. If it was happening repeatedly that'd be a different matter.

My experience with randarts is that often there's something you want that just doesn't seem to be available. It's one of the reasons randarts are more interesting than standarts.

[Diego Gonzalez]

In my current game, dwarf druid, my randarts have a noticeable lack of sustains. It was made that way?

[Sphara]

I chose randarts in 4.2.0 and I came up with this.

I already thought Wormtongue boots were quite overpowered because of the double movement, but this item takes movement speed buff to whole new level. +30 speed for running purposes and turncount adds in every fourth step.

I should probably try a massive turncount run with the game I have in hands.

[Diego Gonzalez]

A fragment of your fight:

The Tarrasque breathes disenchantment.
You feel very good.
The Tarrasque breathes disenchantment.
You die...

[PowerWyrm]

The older I get the more I avoid the Tarrasque...

Now imagine fighting the damn thing... in real time!

https://www.mangband.org/scores?v=1.5.2&dump=ZalPal-1186257779