Persons and humanoids

[Grotug]

On a slightly different (and possibly annoying) note, could I politely ask people to correctly spell "Tolkien"? We've had three errors in this thread.

i before e except after c.

[Nick]

Thanks for the discussion.

I'm not unsympathetic to the desire to keep old Moria monsters, but I think starting with the plan to retain all the remaining ones is not a constraint I want to impose. On the other hand, I will keep that list in mind.

So my rough plan is:

• Do an update of the idea of having the player classes represented as people, more accurately where possible (ie using as far as possible spells the classes would be likely to have) but only to two levels (eg acolyte/priest, scout/ranger)
• For the remainder - higher level non-unique people, and non-unique humanoids - I'll be trying to roughly fill the niche that those monsters are filling with humans/hobbits/elves/dwarves that feel as if they fit in with the uniques

This idea felt right to me when I finally came up with it; let me know what you think.

[Philip]

I was reading up on Numenor, in connection with the main thread. It's remarkable that the leader of an invasion of Valinor that the world had to be completely remade to foil has a native depth of 55. I do feel like Ar-Pharazon should be something of a culmination of the 'p' line, and he currently is (the only deeper 'p's are the grand master mystic and the Mouth of Sauron), but having him appear in the levels that pretty much everyone dives past seems uncharitable. I think that when the 'p' line is being overhauled, they should be made one of the groups that retains threats even into the 80s, like 'W' and 'L' and 'U' and 'D' and 'A'. If there were 'p's in the 70s, and Ar-Pharazon appeared in the 80s, and was able to summon them, I think that would be perfectly reasonable. Additionally, I think it would not be terribly out of place to have Turin as a unique in the 90s. He is one of the most imposing characters in the legendarium, and he's fated to kill Morgoth, is a giant egotist, and has never made a good decision in his life, so there are plenty of reasons for him to fight the player. The deeper parts are also somewhat missing a heavily melee-focused unique, most of them have strong melee but are mostly scary because of breaths and other spells. If Hurin could do ~600 damage in melee, and also had ways to make it harder to just phase around him (tele_to, maybe even some sort of teleport interdiction, or AI that avoids being shootable) he could be an interesting fight.

As for 'h', I think perhaps the main thing missing is the sons of Feanor. And perhaps some powerful dwarves, but outside of making up some ring-holders, I don't really see a way to get any. But mostly the sons of Feanor. I'm not sure how set we are on chronology, because there is sort of no way for the sons of Feanor to have acquired the silmarils while Morgoth still has his crown, but they do at one point have them and those have a lot of power. They all have personalities or quirks that could be adapted into unique fights, I feel.

[MattB]

Some random thoughts on the below:

> Ninjas and dagashis are good, interesting creatures that tend to scare me at depth (Unless I have susstr). I would be sad to see them go. But their names jar with me. Horribly.


> Enchantresses, demonologists and necromancers are just about THE most interesting creatures at their depth - please don't discard them!


> I am hugely attached to death knights and blood knights (like, seriously fangirling). To me, level 30 means the former and level 40 the latter. Do I have the HP to take a curse from them? Probably not. So how am I going to deal with them?


> @Clearshade - that's good knowledge! I never knew that.


> @Derakon - your comment about legibility is 100% not unfounded concern and should not lightly be dismissed.


> I have never played Moria, but I think Greedy Little Gomes sound wonderful. Unless you're doing away with gnomes, Nick?...


> Tolkein

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Tolkein

Anyone who can bash Morgoth with a standard, store-bought, shovel can spell "Tolkien" any way he wants in my book.

[MattB]

Anyone who can bash Morgoth with a standard, store-bought, shovel can spell "Tolkien" any way he wants in my book.

Says he who did it without the shovel...