The fresh mage of Belfalas

[Kodiologist]

Perhaps the oddest thing is that stealth is given on the character sheet as an adjective while everything else gets a number.

[Voovus]

Excellent stealth is still more than enough for demons and dragons. If you make that change, then poor and bad stealth will cover too much territory.

If I understand correctly, the current descriptions for stealth are

<2 bad
2 poor
3-4 fair
5 good
6 very good
7 excellent
8-9 superb
10-14? heroic
15?+ legendary

The lower end seems unnecessarily fine and the name doesn't really correspond to the effect, while the upper end is fairly coarse. Simplest suggestion: change the name for every 2 points of stealth instead (2-3 poor, 4-5 fair, 6-7 good, 8-9 very good...).

[Pete Mack]

Excellent stealth is still more than enough for demons and dragons. If you make that change, then poor and bad stealth will cover too much territory.

[Voovus]

The feeling I get is that an Excellent stealth score is decent, but not enough to rely on. Superb means that things will rarely wake up before you're ready to deal with them.

Would it make sense to rename the stealth scores so that they actually reflect this? What is at the moment "Excellent" ought to be "Fair", then "Superb" ought to be "Good", and so on.

[Pete Mack]

Heroic means things rarely wake up before you leave the area. And legendary stealth means you can waltz through a room containing Huan and Carcharoth and the Tarrasque--monsters that wake very easily--without any worries.

[Derakon]

Stealth is tricky to nail down in part because it varies by monster. Some monsters are easy to wake up (zephyr hounds are always awake), some, like dragons, sleep deeply. But in general the amount you disturb enemies scales with your distance to them, your speed, and of course your stealth score.

The feeling I get is that an Excellent stealth score is decent, but not enough to rely on. Superb means that things will rarely wake up before you're ready to deal with them.

[Sphara]

Stealth increases as the cube root of 2, so every 3 stealth doubles your stealthiness. +1 doesn't matter much.

This is the kind of response that is exceptionally informative. Very much thanks for this just for my part.

I still do not know how stealth numbers ACTUALLY work. Namely the chances of you waking up a monster, being HOW close to a monster having HOW MUCH STEALTH. To be frank, I don't really need to know this. Some math is just good to be hidden in roguelikes

[Pete Mack]

Stealth increases as the cube root of 2, so every 3 stealth doubles your stealthiness. +1 doesn't matter much.

The issue about CON is that one point of STR goes ablong way towards CON when it is the difference between 16 and 17, or 17 and 18. That doesn't matter much in the early game. But later on, it can make a huge difference.

[Sphara]

Yeah, I've been leaning on Detect Monsters and picking my battles. Reveal Monsters costs a lot more mana and has a much higher failure rate, but I should've gotten into the habit of using it at this point with all my Intelligence bonuses.



That makes sense, because although I wouldn't get a lot more HP that way, just 25 extra HP (at level 30, raising Con from 10 to 16 grants 25.5 HP) are worth something when my HP are this low.



I assumed that +1 stealth was too small a bonus to matter, but I don't actually know the scale for stealth. Is there a good place to look in the code to learn about the stealth mechanics?

I don't know the stealth mechanic exactly either but afaik, every point does give a pretty nice boost this early.

Also, at very high danger levels, neurotic approach is crucial. Not as crucial as compared to just leaving the level for good. Tselakus at DL 40 is close to omen of death -message. Awake Tselakus is beyond omen

[Pondlife]

Yeah, I've been leaning on Detect Monsters and picking my battles. Reveal Monsters costs a lot more mana and has a much higher failure rate, but I should've gotten into the habit of using it at this point with all my Intelligence bonuses.

I think Detect Monsters should be renamed to Detect Visible Monsters so that its limitation is more obvious.

[Kodiologist]

Until late in the game, Mage has such bad HP that just about everything at native depth can kill you in a couple turns. You have to rely on detection, avoidance, and evasion.

Yeah, I've been leaning on Detect Monsters and picking my battles. Reveal Monsters costs a lot more mana and has a much higher failure rate, but I should've gotten into the habit of using it at this point with all my Intelligence bonuses.

Also: you need more HP. Just a few points to CON at the start can help.

That makes sense, because although I wouldn't get a lot more HP that way, just 25 extra HP (at level 30, raising Con from 10 to 16 grants 25.5 HP) are worth something when my HP are this low.

With a low HP character i would wear the elvenkind armor instead of the resistance for sure. You don't need AC, but you need good stealth with a mage.

I assumed that +1 stealth was too small a bonus to matter, but I don't actually know the scale for stealth. Is there a good place to look in the code to learn about the stealth mechanics?

[Adam]

With a low HP character i would wear the elvenkind armor instead of the resistance for sure. You don't need AC, but you need good stealth with a mage.

[Pete Mack]

Youch! Even an ordinary dread could have taken that character out with Nether Bolt. You start getting strength drained by an invisible monster and it is time to go. Also: mage has reveal monsters at low level. Use it! Also: you need more HP. Just a few points to CON at the start can help.

Edit: But it is the detection that matters the most. Until late in the game, Mage has such bad HP that just about everything at native depth can kill you in a couple turns. You have to rely on detection, avoidance, and evasion. If you want to kill monsters, pick Warrior or Paladin. Rogue starts a little slow, but gains power fast.

[Kodiologist]

That seems fair.

Dump: http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=22092

I was very happy with all those Intelligence bonuses, and I had the low resists covered, but lacking see invisible, confusion resistance, and blindness resistance all hurt.

[Derakon]

Oof, yeah, that's a little late to not have either SI or ESP. Tselakus shouldn't be at DL40, but you should still have had at least some warning that he was around, beyond just the level feeling.