Persistent levels

[Nick]

One of the defining features of Angband has always been the fact that new levels (aside from the town) are always freshly generated.

Not any more (optionally).

The latest build, available from the nightlies page, has an experimental birth option for persistent levels.

Note well: this is an experimental birth option. It probably has bugs. It almost certainly has balance issues. You can just ignore it, and the game will not have changed. I would be interested to see what people think of it, though.

Comments welcome

[Derakon]

Oh lordy, this should be an interesting discussion.

For my part, it's been a long time since I played without forced-descent, so I assume this won't make much difference aside from functionally giving unlimited "home" storage in the form of the floor of the town?

[Nick]

For my part, it's been a long time since I played without forced-descent, so I assume this won't make much difference aside from functionally giving unlimited "home" storage in the form of the floor of the town?

I guess so. I haven't actually tested it very rigorously...

[Pete Mack]

It's not the same as forced descent, because of uniques. If there's an OOD unique, you won't get another chance at it in native depth (no idea how this works in combination with monster summoning.)

[Derakon]

It's not the same as forced descent, because of uniques. If there's an OOD unique, you won't get another chance at it in native depth (no idea how this works in combination with monster summoning.)

Oh geeze, I hadn't thought of that. What happens if someone summons uniques? Do they disappear from the level they were on?

[Zikke]

Maybe the maps would persist, but the monsters would repopulate as usual when you enter the level?

[Pete Mack]

Also, because items in monster inventory are generated at the time of Monday creation, it means that you will lose artifacts when you leave a level, and it's significantly more brutal than "preserve mode off."

[Nick]

Maybe the maps would persist, but the monsters would repopulate as usual when you enter the level?

Levels are frozen when you leave, so the monsters all stay where they were. I think this means that uniques stay where they appear first unless you kill or *destruct* them.

As is probably apparent, there are a lot of gotchas in this mode (and interesting interactions with things like forced descent) which I have decided to leave to other people's playtesting to iron out all the kinks

[Zikke]

So even if one explored each level completely, and made notes of any uniques left behind, an OOD unique might randomly spawn carrying an artifact and the player would never know it or see them again unless they went back to that level for some reason.

Also, this means there would essentially be a finite number of monsters to kill and loot to roll in any given game (except for the randomly generated monsters as you're exploring).

[Sphara]

So even if one explored each level completely, and made notes of any uniques left behind, an OOD unique might randomly spawn carrying an artifact and the player would never know it or see them again unless they went back to that level for some reason.

Also, this means there would essentially be a finite number of monsters to kill and loot to roll in any given game (except for the randomly generated monsters as you're exploring).

Wait. I need a confirmation on this one. Monster inventory is pre-determined? This is not true, right?

And for the second statement: Summoning monsters should give you enough monsters not to call opponent and experience generation finite.

[AnonymousHero]

You truly are Evil

EDIT: Hang on, we can't do Zalgo text?!!????? The evil... deepens?

[fph]

Maybe the maps would persist, but the monsters would repopulate as usual when you enter the level?

It would make sense --- the dungeon is fixed, but the monsters can roam about it and take the stairs while you aren't there.

[Gwarl]

Levels are frozen when you leave, so the monsters all stay where they were. I think this means that uniques stay where they appear first unless you kill or *destruct* them.

As is probably apparent, there are a lot of gotchas in this mode (and interesting interactions with things like forced descent) which I have decided to leave to other people's playtesting to iron out all the kinks

First gotcha (I did mutiple persistent levels in my baby's first roguelike the same way), do monsters regenerate hitpoints when you're not on the floor?

Potential for abuse is left as an exercise to the reader.

[EpicMan]

First gotcha (I did mutiple persistent levels in my baby's first roguelike the same way), do monsters regenerate hitpoints when you're not on the floor?

Potential for abuse is left as an exercise to the reader.

Just regenerate X% (100? 50?) HP for all wounded monsters when a player enters a level.

If monsters only generated their drops on death (inventory could still be used for stolen items) a lot of lost-artifact issues would be lost.

[Derakon]

Wait. I need a confirmation on this one. Monster inventory is pre-determined? This is not true, right?

It's been true for a long while. I believe the original motivation was to discourage savescumming of drops. However, I'm also pretty sure that a specific hack was put in place, to ensure that an artifact in a monster's inventory does not count as generated for purposes of no-preserve mode.