Help a newbie... what am I lacking for Sauron and Morgoth?

**Mondkalb** · October 10, 2017, 07:17

You could use some more hitpoints, everything else is fine.

**Pete Mack** · October 10, 2017, 07:23

You're a bit light on mass banishment and *destruction* (tho for the latter, Kelek would help a lot.) You are exceedingly short on restore Mana. And you're primary weapon kind of sucks (an x4, +14 damage bow is very much a midgame weapon for a ranger.) And you are rather short on Holy Might/Slay Evil ammo. You can get by without this, but you'd want at least ammo of Wounding with such a mediocre bow. It's not unreasonable to expect an x5 longbow of Lothlorien roughly equivalent to Bard in damge. Or at the very least, an x4 bow with significantly higher damage bonus than +14.

It's also reasonable to take on Sauron in melee with a big three ego weapon, either +attacks , HA, or *slay evil*, even as a Ranger. You can easily but to +85 or so, which makes getting hits in melee easy. And Rune of Protection means Sauron can't really hit back in an anti-sunmoning corridor. Yeah no it's expensive, but you can set up the corridor in advance, without wasting !rMana.

You have a lot of junk at home: all your melee weapons suck, as do the slippers of Oindor. Get rid of them already.

**Pete Mack** · October 10, 2017, 07:28

This deserves a second post: evaluating ewuioment left at home isn't super hard. Once you've got a good kit, there are only two fights that really matter. Versus Sauron, you'll need rDisenchantment in melee. Vs Morgoth, you need sustains on your significant stats. Other than that, there are really only three god-stats to keep in mind: Constitution, Speed, and Damage. (Strength and Dex only matter insofar as they contribute to the latter. For a Ranger or Mage in particular, this means: almost not at all.)

**PowerWyrm** · October 10, 2017, 09:50

1) Ring of Speed goes away, Ring of Brian replaces it. You won't win vs Sauron or Morgoth with 675 hps if it's your first fight. But you still can with +20 speed.

2) Your Arkenstone is useless. You don't have pBlind, so equip that Lantern of True Sight.

3) Drop the magical arrows (or brand them), there's no point to them. Having a stack of arrows of acid would be great for Sauron.

**Mondkalb** · October 10, 2017, 10:00

I usually go up and down the last levels to maximize level (and HP), there is good stuff around, although it is also a bit dangerous.
With a High-elf, this might be too boring, because it will take a while to get those last levels due to the experience penalty.

**Estie** · October 10, 2017, 10:22

It is not impossible to win with that character as is, but if this is your first attempt, youre going to die.

What everyone has said - more hp, better bow, more arrows.

I assume you are wielding your melee weapon for the immunities, and that is a good reason with a ranger; however, for the final fights immunities dont matter. You can wield either a damage weapon to melee or a weapon with con.

You only need +20 speed, if you keep up haste self for +30. that means you can replace your speed ring, for example with con.

One good greater vault should normally net you everything youre missing.

**Oraticus** · October 10, 2017, 14:26

Originally posted by Pete Mack

You're a bit light on mass banishment and *destruction* (tho for the latter, Kelek would help a lot.) You are exceedingly short on restore Mana. And you're primary weapon kind of sucks (an x4, +14 damage bow is very much a midgame weapon for a ranger.) And you are rather short on Holy Might/Slay Evil ammo. You can get by without this, but you'd want at least ammo of Wounding with such a mediocre bow. It's not unreasonable to expect an x5 longbow of Lothlorien roughly equivalent to Bard in damge. Or at the very least, an x4 bow with significantly higher damage bonus than +14.

It's also reasonable to take on Sauron in melee with a big three ego weapon, either +attacks , HA, or *slay evil*, even as a Ranger. You can easily but to +85 or so, which makes getting hits in melee easy. And Rune of Protection means Sauron can't really hit back in an anti-sunmoning corridor. Yeah no it's expensive, but you can set up the corridor in advance, without wasting !rMana.

Sadly, this is the best bow I've found so far. I found a single randart short bow, but it had the same shooting power, no dex bonus, and a comparative to-dam value. As for ammo, I was pretty sure I was going to need to scrounge up some more holy might or slay evil, especially since most of my ammo is crap-on-a-cracker against P and p. I wasn't planning on a melee route, but failing better ammo, I can see how that at least will let me slide past little p.

So:
1.) Get a better launcher (yeah, I was feeling that was the case)
2.) Get better ammo (was feeling that as well)
3.) Get a super weapon of death in case 1 & 2 take too long

Originally posted by Pete Mack

You have a lot of junk at home: all your melee weapons suck, as do the slippers of Oindor. Get rid of them already.

Lol… ow… no punches pulled. You could just pat the noob on the head while reassuringly repeating the phrase: "It's ok, you poor, poor stupid noob". Also, that mattock served me well for a good while! It's like an old friend!

Agreed, though… I was keeping them around for gear swapping though as I'm just not used to optimizing a character (thus the post). The slippers I had been keeping in case the speed I gave up was more sensible on the feet for the +4 CON, but as has been previously pointed out I can store the ring of speed and get the better Ring of Brian for +4 CON which gives me a lot more goodness out of it than the slippers do.

Originally posted by Pete Mack

This deserves a second post: evaluating ewuioment left at home isn't super hard. Once you've got a good kit, there are only two fights that really matter. Versus Sauron, you'll need rDisenchantment in melee. Vs Morgoth, you need sustains on your significant stats. Other than that, there are really only three god-stats to keep in mind: Constitution, Speed, and Damage. (Strength and Dex only matter insofar as they contribute to the latter. For a Ranger or Mage in particular, this means: almost not at all.)

I got rDisench on one piece of gear. If I go full ranged, do I need multi-sustains?

Originally posted by PowerWyrm

1) Ring of Speed goes away, Ring of Brian replaces it. You won't win vs Sauron or Morgoth with 675 hps if it's your first fight. But you still can with +20 speed.

2) Your Arkenstone is useless. You don't have pBlind, so equip that Lantern of True Sight.

3) Drop the magical arrows (or brand them), there's no point to them. Having a stack of arrows of acid would be great for Sauron.

I knew I was probably overdoing it with +31 base speed, so yeah, storing the speed ring for Brian makes lots of sense. What kind of base HP/CON should I be aiming for?

I was wearing the true sight for a long time while keeping the Arkenstone in my home, but I figured with 100% save and rDark that I'm only susceptible to blind if I try to melee a mob that hits for blindness, right (am I understanding this correctly)? Do P/p have blind attached to their attacks? I'll probably still keep it equipped while searching for gear as that activation is what I wanted it for.

The magical arrows are there simply 'cause I picked them up shortly before taking the char dump. Normally I'd dump magic-only arrows as I can buy stacks in town and make better variations myself via Tenser's.

Originally posted by Mondkalb

I usually go up and down the last levels to maximize level (and HP), there is good stuff around, although it is also a bit dangerous.
With a High-elf, this might be too boring, because it will take a while to get those last levels due to the experience penalty.

Yeah… grinding. At least I got lots of arrows for sticking into hard targets.

Originally posted by Estie

It is not impossible to win with that character as is, but if this is your first attempt, youre going to die.

Lol… reassuring!

Originally posted by Estie

What everyone has said - more hp, better bow, more arrows.

I assume you are wielding your melee weapon for the immunities, and that is a good reason with a ranger; however, for the final fights immunities dont matter. You can wield either a damage weapon to melee or a weapon with con.

You only need +20 speed, if you keep up haste self for +30. that means you can replace your speed ring, for example with con.

One good greater vault should normally net you everything youre missing.

I've read in the past that playing a ranger as a warrior is a quick way to get your backside handed to you, so I focused on using melee as a stat stick with damage as an aft thought. I see now that I should dig up a heavy hitter, though.

**Oraticus** · October 10, 2017, 14:32

Also, is my healing enough? Looks like it should be. How much Mass Banishment and *Destruction* do I need? Pete Mack said I needed more of both, but that Kelek's could work for *Destruction*, though when I looked at my success rate for casting *Destruction* it looked super unreliable and a potential mass waste of SP.

**Pete Mack** · October 10, 2017, 15:47

A ranger can do pretty well in melee against all but the most dangerous monsters IF he uses Rune f Protection and both buffing spells (heroism and berserk strength.) But to do this, he needs a good (big dice) weapon. As others have pointed out, a +CON ring can make up for the CON on the weapon. It's certainly worth keeping your +CON stat stick as a backup. But using melee is a lot less work for your fingers than shooting absolutely everything--especially if your bow sucks.

And really, do leave the Holy Might ammo at home (and any acid brand if you find it.) That is valuable stuff, and should be reserved for the Bosses.

**Derakon** · October 10, 2017, 16:24

Rangers are the worst at melee out of all the hybrid characters, but considering that priests routinely win in melee with Morgoth, it's not out of the question for rangers to do so too. But they'd want a lot of healing and stat sustains, not to mention substantially more than 275 damage/round vs. evil. I usually consider 400 damage/round to be my minimum if I'm to consider meleeing Morgoth.

If you fight Morgoth from range, then all you have to worry about is non-elemental direct damage (manastorm and brain smash) and his summons. He can't drain your stats remotely, and the odds of him summoning something that can are pretty low.

**Oraticus** · October 10, 2017, 17:32

Originally posted by Pete Mack

A ranger can do pretty well in melee against all but the most dangerous monsters IF he uses Rune f Protection and both buffing spells (heroism and berserk strength.) But to do this, he needs a good (big dice) weapon. As others have pointed out, a +CON ring can make up for the CON on the weapon. It's certainly worth keeping your +CON stat stick as a backup. But using melee is a lot less work for your fingers than shooting absolutely everything--especially if your bow sucks.

And really, do leave the Holy Might ammo at home (and any acid brand if you find it.) That is valuable stuff, and should be reserved for the Bosses.

I do intend to store the holy might ammo… I'm not wasting it on the dross. I'll keep the wounding ammo along for nasty uniques that resist fire/cold/acid/lighting/poison, because if I'm gonna dig around in the dungeon for a bit, it'd be nice to get uniques out of the way so they don't get summoned by P.

Originally posted by Derakon

Rangers are the worst at melee out of all the hybrid characters, but considering that priests routinely win in melee with Morgoth, it's not out of the question for rangers to do so too. But they'd want a lot of healing and stat sustains, not to mention substantially more than 275 damage/round vs. evil. I usually consider 400 damage/round to be my minimum if I'm to consider meleeing Morgoth.

If you fight Morgoth from range, then all you have to worry about is non-elemental direct damage (manastorm and brain smash) and his summons. He can't drain your stats remotely, and the odds of him summoning something that can are pretty low.

Since it's my first time against the ugly P, I'm going to try and stick to ranged death. It seems to be the safest and most reliable way to murder Morgoth for my ranger. Since I have 100% save, I don't have to worry about brain smashing, right? My biggest fears from him are mana storm and bad summons, correct?

**Pete Mack** · October 10, 2017, 17:34

What Derakon said. Sauron is a different issue. For him, melee (or point blank archery) can really cut down on risk, especially given Rune of Protection spell. With an anti-sunmoning corridor (ASC) he can only bring in at most one other monster unless you get really unlucky with a PASSWALL undead or (worse) a Black Reaver.
If your ASC is circular and has Rune of Protection all through it, Sauron is pretty much helpless against you. Yeah, he'll still hit you with some spells, and you'll need a bit of healing, but really the worst he can do to you is teleport away (or level, if you don't have a perfect saving throw or resist Nexus. A HE Ranger doesn't have to worry much about that, however.)

**Oraticus** · October 10, 2017, 17:54

Originally posted by Pete Mack

If your ASC is circular and has Rune of Protection all through it, Sauron is pretty much helpless against you.

Circular ASC, you say? Your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your publications to learn more...

All I know of ASCs is the good 'ole zigzag, like this:

Code:

#################
#;#;#;#;#;#;#;#;#
;#;#;#;#;#;#;#;##
#################

What's the setup of a circular ASC (Anti-summoning Circle??)

**Monkey Face** · October 10, 2017, 23:17

Originally posted by Oraticus

I knew I was probably overdoing it with +31 base speed, so yeah, storing the speed ring for Brian makes lots of sense. What kind of base HP/CON should I be aiming for?

You want to try and get your CON up to 18/200. That will maximize your HP for the character level. If you're willing to grind it out to CL50 you'll get your absolute maximum HP. Otherwise you'll have less.

Help a newbie... what am I lacking for Sauron and Morgoth?

Help a newbie... what am I lacking for Sauron and Morgoth?

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