Preparation for 4.1 release

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  • Nick
    Vanilla maintainer
    • Apr 2007
    • 9634

    Originally posted by kandrc
    Are we supposed to get the same town game after game?
    Sort of. It was an accidental side-effect of a change I made to fix level generation crashes, and once I noticed it I thought it made sense. Note that you only get the same town if you open your old savefile.
    One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
    In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

    Comment

    • Gwarl
      Administrator
      • Jan 2017
      • 1025

      Attached is a savefile suffering from the weight bug. Seems to happen a fair amount.
      Attached Files

      Comment

      • Nick
        Vanilla maintainer
        • Apr 2007
        • 9634

        Originally posted by Gwarl
        Attached is a savefile suffering from the weight bug. Seems to happen a fair amount.
        Thanks, problem found and fixed in development.
        One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
        In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

        Comment

        • Ingwe Ingweron
          Veteran
          • Jan 2009
          • 2129

          Just a dumb nagging question, Nick. In the quiver, why are Mithril Arrows sorted after Seeker Arrows rather than sorted by damage output?
          “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
          ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

          Comment

          • Nick
            Vanilla maintainer
            • Apr 2007
            • 9634

            Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
            Just a dumb nagging question, Nick. In the quiver, why are Mithril Arrows sorted after Seeker Arrows rather than sorted by damage output?
            Because that's where they come in object.txt. I'll change that at some point.
            One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
            In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

            Comment

            • Gwarl
              Administrator
              • Jan 2017
              • 1025

              Makes perfect sense to me. You want to use up your more expendable arrows first, and seeker arrows will go down anyway as you get burned/melted etc. Mithril arrows are the more valuable, and should be lower on the list.

              Comment

              • Ingwe Ingweron
                Veteran
                • Jan 2009
                • 2129

                Originally posted by Gwarl
                Makes perfect sense to me. You want to use up your more expendable arrows first, and seeker arrows will go down anyway as you get burned/melted etc. Mithril arrows are the more valuable, and should be lower on the list.
                Value for selling, sure. But I measure value by damage output. The first slot should be the lowest damage output (for automatic "h" spamming at the nearest target), the remaining slots should be in order of damage, from least to greatest (at least of regular damage, as slay damage is more variable). "More expendable" is nearly meaningless to me. Do you mean they don't burn up, so they are more valuable? Who cares?! They still break. Why should a Seeker Arrow of Holy Might be less "valuable" than a lowly regular Mithril Arrow?

                Categorizing them in order of arrows, seeker arrows, mithril arrows, and then by damage only within those categories makes no sense to me from a game-play perspective. The damage categorization should cross all three types.
                “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                Comment

                • Gwarl
                  Administrator
                  • Jan 2017
                  • 1025

                  The burning up/melting thing is probably actually my first consideration with ammo. I want to fire my high-damage seeker arrows while I still have them, so when hitting 'h' for 'fire most exxpendable ammo' I'd rather it not default to mithril while my seeker arrows are sitting in the back burning up.

                  I see mithril ammo as my endgame staple, and seeker ammo as something that's nice while it lasts but will be gone soon anyway whether I fire it or not.

                  Comment

                  • Ingwe Ingweron
                    Veteran
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 2129

                    Originally posted by Gwarl
                    The burning up/melting thing is probably actually my first consideration with ammo. I want to fire my high-damage seeker arrows while I still have them, so when hitting 'h' for 'fire most exxpendable ammo' I'd rather it not default to mithril while my seeker arrows are sitting in the back burning up.

                    I see mithril ammo as my endgame staple, and seeker ammo as something that's nice while it lasts but will be gone soon anyway whether I fire it or not.
                    I think you may be an outlier in that thinking. Nonetheless, a pebble of slay anything, or even magical, is more valuable to me than a regular iron shot in that it does a lot more damage, but in the current sorting is treated as the most 'expendable' ammo.

                    As for your end-game thinking. A seeker arrow of Holy Might usually does more damage to Morgoth than a mithril arrow of Holy Might, but both are subject to destruction by Mana Storms. Damage is what matters. Damage. Damage. Damage. If you're worried about fire or acid, buy insurance (e.g., Thorin, Eol, etc.)
                    “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                    ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                    Comment

                    • kandrc
                      Swordsman
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 299

                      Posting here because I started the game in question a few days ago.

                      I just finished a game (a winner) in which I never saw an artifact light source. Checking the spoilers afterward, there were 10 artifact lights (4 torches, 4 lanterns, a phial, and a star, most of them sufficiently common that I should have seen them).

                      I think this may at least partially be a squelch issue. I squelched all non-artifact torches when I found my first lantern. From that time, I never saw another torch, which is not the expected behavior.

                      I also never saw an everburning lantern. I saw dozens of True Sight, so I was generating ego lanterns, but I never got everburning. And I didn't squelch any lanterns, because I wanted to keep them showing up to refuel with.

                      I had to close the game at some point, and when I reloaded, the weight bug popped up, so I updated this morning; unfortunately, beyond saying that my previous update was 3 or 4 days ago, I have no way of saying what the checkpoint was.

                      Comment

                      • Nick
                        Vanilla maintainer
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 9634

                        Originally posted by kandrc
                        I just finished a game (a winner) in which I never saw an artifact light source. Checking the spoilers afterward, there were 10 artifact lights (4 torches, 4 lanterns, a phial, and a star, most of them sufficiently common that I should have seen them).

                        I think this may at least partially be a squelch issue. I squelched all non-artifact torches when I found my first lantern. From that time, I never saw another torch, which is not the expected behavior.
                        OK, that's entirely possible. I'll check.

                        Originally posted by kandrc
                        I also never saw an everburning lantern. I saw dozens of True Sight, so I was generating ego lanterns, but I never got everburning. And I didn't squelch any lanterns, because I wanted to keep them showing up to refuel with.
                        Did you see any Lanterns of Brightness? Brightness and Everburning are native to DL1-30, whereas True Sight is DL20 and down, so it's not impossible that this might be normal behaviour.
                        One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                        In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                        Comment

                        • kandrc
                          Swordsman
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 299

                          No. No brightness, either.

                          Comment

                          • saharvey2
                            Rookie
                            • Nov 2018
                            • 1

                            Another example of a disconnected section of the maze. Angband 4.1.2

                            Comment

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