Tweaking Character Creation Process

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  • gameplay appreciator
    Rookie
    • Feb 2017
    • 24

    #16
    The character creation screen now instructs the player on how to attain maximum bpr with realistic early game weapon choices? Good change if true. Still seems better to just do it for the player rather than rely on their diligence in reading in-game help.

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    • PowerDiver
      Prophet
      • Mar 2008
      • 2820

      #17
      I think defaulting to manual is fine, but the starting point should be fully invested point allocation that is presumed optimal.

      Comment

      • Pete Mack
        Prophet
        • Apr 2007
        • 6883

        #18
        Yes. Basically 17/16/16 or something close to it, where 17 is the primary stat (INT/WIS for full casters; STR for everyone else) and closing out with 16 CON, and either STR for fullcasters or DEX, for everyone else. Swap DEX and STR if it improves max blows.
        Edit:
        alternatively, split points between CON and the tertiary stat, either DEX for full casters or the casting stat for half-casters. That's probably more reasonable.

        Comment

        • Nomad
          Knight
          • Sep 2010
          • 958

          #19
          Originally posted by Pete Mack
          Yes. Basically 17/16/16 or something close to it, where 17 is the primary stat (INT/WIS for full casters; STR for everyone else) and closing out with 16 CON, and either STR for fullcasters or DEX, for everyone else. Swap DEX and STR if it improves max blows.
          Edit:
          alternatively, split points between CON and the tertiary stat, either DEX for full casters or the casting stat for half-casters. That's probably more reasonable.
          Going back to the idea of moving default starting stats out to the edit files, how about setting a priority level (rating how important each stat is to the class so the auto-roller knows how to prioritise them) and minimum value for each stat in class.txt? Upon picking a class, auto-allocate enough points to bring stats up to the specified minimums, and then allow the player the choice of whether to assign any remaining points automatically, manually or randomly.

          That would allow for semi-randomised characters and let inexperienced players fiddle with manual choices without creating totally unplayable characters with truly terrible stats. (And if you're an advanced player who wants to be able to randomly roll unplayable challenge characters, you can just go into the edit files and alter the fixed minimums.)

          Comment

          • Ingwe Ingweron
            Veteran
            • Jan 2009
            • 2129

            #20
            Originally posted by Nick
            My point is that the savefile provides your user-interface and other options, and then you load your standard .prf file for the inscriptions etc. I can't see a more efficient way of doing this, or a reason not to - what am I missing?
            So, you see how being able to load inscriptions, etc., easily and in mass to any new savefile is efficient, but you don't see how being able to load user interface options to any new savefile easily and in mass would also be efficient?

            Only if I reuse the savefile can I have the benefit of the user-interface options chosen? A new save requires reimputing the options one by one? Why should that be different than the keymaps, inscriptions and subwindow options that I can load in mass? What am I missing in my explanation?
            “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
            ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

            Comment

            • Nick
              Vanilla maintainer
              • Apr 2007
              • 9638

              #21
              Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
              So, you see how being able to load inscriptions, etc., easily and in mass to any new savefile is efficient, but you don't see how being able to load user interface options to any new savefile easily and in mass would also be efficient?

              Only if I reuse the savefile can I have the benefit of the user-interface options chosen? A new save requires reimputing the options one by one? Why should that be different than the keymaps, inscriptions and subwindow options that I can load in mass? What am I missing in my explanation?
              The bit I don't understand is why you are using a new savefile - but I guess "reasons" is enough there

              I guess it makes sense for the savefile to contain only information about the character, and for all other info to be somewhere else. Maybe this also applies to some other info besides options, like whether you have ever seen given artifacts (which gets thorny when you consider randarts) and ego items?
              One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
              In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

              Comment

              • Ingwe Ingweron
                Veteran
                • Jan 2009
                • 2129

                #22
                Originally posted by Nick
                The bit I don't understand is why you are using a new savefile - but I guess "reasons" is enough there

                I guess it makes sense for the savefile to contain only information about the character, and for all other info to be somewhere else. Maybe this also applies to some other info besides options, like whether you have ever seen given artifacts (which gets thorny when you consider randarts) and ego items?
                A savefile has the class and race locked in, doesn't it? If I played a half-troll mage, reusing the savefile doesn't let me play a hobbit rogue, or does it? If I play in a comp, I must use the comp savefile. I can load my standard pref of inscriptions, keymaps, and subwindows, but not the interface options. That seems really odd, especially when interface options are the things least likely to change no matter what race or class I play. I don't mind that item knowledge resets with a new savefile, in fact I find that helpful to keep track of what I have and haven't found yet.
                “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                Comment

                • Nick
                  Vanilla maintainer
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 9638

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                  A savefile has the class and race locked in, doesn't it? If I played a half-troll mage, reusing the savefile doesn't let me play a hobbit rogue, or does it? If I play in a comp, I must use the comp savefile. I can load my standard pref of inscriptions, keymaps, and subwindows, but not the interface options. That seems really odd, especially when interface options are the things least likely to change no matter what race or class I play.
                  If you start from an old savefile, you get to choose your race and class again (keeping the same savefile used to be the only way to retain monster memory), but you are right about competitions.

                  As to the dumping of interface options to a .prf file, that will be easy to implement, because it was taken out on Friday August the 30th, 2013 (or it would be if some fool hadn't completely rewritten the code since then). The essential reasons for that are in this thread, and seem principally related to some squelch (now ignore) options which no longer exist anyway. I can no longer see any reason now not to allow dumping interface options to a .prf file, so I will implement that. I can also see no reason not to continue saving interface options to the savefile, so I will not remove that.

                  Also I see no harm in putting the rolling for stats before class choice in the standard roller, so I will look into doing that too. After that, I will be free to return to putting back in the trap-noticing code. By the time I have finished that, I should be in just the right frame of mind to re-work the monster list
                  One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                  In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                  Comment

                  • Ingwe Ingweron
                    Veteran
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 2129

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Nick
                    If you start from an old savefile, you get to choose your race and class again (keeping the same savefile used to be the only way to retain monster memory), but you are right about competitions.
                    You are the man, Nick!

                    It never ceases to amaze me how I still have holes in my knowledge of some little and basic things about this game. I always thought, quite wrongly, that if I chose "new" in an old savefile, the prior settings would be dumped. Obviously, it does keep the settings. However it also keeps all the item knowledge, but not flavor knowledge, which can be good or bad, depending on what you're after. I have used the item knowledge/flavor list to know what items I have or have not discovered. With the old savefile, there's no easy way to know whether the item in the knowledge list has actually yet been found.
                    “We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see.”
                    ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

                    Comment

                    • Nick
                      Vanilla maintainer
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 9638

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Ingwe Ingweron
                      It never ceases to amaze me how I still have holes in my knowledge of some little and basic things about this game.
                      Well, thing have changed over the years too. In fact it's reasonably common for a change to be made, and then reverted, ruining the game both times
                      One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
                      In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.

                      Comment

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