But not *really*....

[Monkey Face]

looks as if INT/190 is already the SP cap. CON might work the same way.

You should definitely look to go higher than 18/190 for a mage. I believe spell failure rate can be 0% for most spells at 18/200.

[Will]

The HP increase per level vs CON is harcoded in a table. It caps at +25 when CON reaches 18/200, so having more than that has no effect.

Does CON have any other effect on game stats apart from HP? If not then it's a bit weird to have CON cap below the game stat cap.

[Derakon]

Does CON have any other effect on game stats apart from HP? If not then it's a bit weird to have CON cap below the game stat cap.

It does not, and yeah, CON is kind of wonky. The extra stats do help protect you against stat drain, though, by giving you a bit of a buffer.

[Will]

It does not, and yeah, CON is kind of wonky. The extra stats do help protect you against stat drain, though, by giving you a bit of a buffer.

Yeah but that's not affected by the stats cap anyway so it doesn't really matter.

It would be nice to have all stats provide a bit more something until 18/*** otherwise we might as well cap them at 18/200.

[Sky]

it would be nice .. to have the stat charts.

[Pete Mack]

This is false. CON also improves regeneration speed, and tops out at 18/220. This isn't all that important, but it is a CON side effect.

It does not, and yeah, CON is kind of wonky. The extra stats do help protect you against stat drain, though, by giving you a bit of a buffer.

[Grotug]

Shame about no rDis--I'd say go kill Sauron and Morgoth otherwise. But Sauron is bad news for a fighter without it. For a HTW, you'll need rNexus to kill him too. Your saving throw is too low to risk Tele level.

I picked up Hammerhand (rNexus) and dispatched Sauron with relative ease. I never found Trickery, so used Sustainance for sDEX. Morgoth was the easiest he's been for me so far. He only summoned Uniques by the time he was almost dead and otherwise his summons I rarely had to worry about (really, M? Animals?) Other fights with him almost every summons would cause concern. I left a lot of Uniques unfought, but when he did summon it was Smeagol and Kronos.

My strategy of ?phasing away before reaching 600health worked very well, since he moves faster than his summons and he destructs the area all the time meaning that after I ?phase, I'm out of LOS of things that can 500+ one shot me. I can then create more distance from the summons by moving away from him to a good place to fight, since he moves faster than everyone else, and then resume fighting after topping off my health. If he did a nasty summons; like 4 Greater Dragons or the summons were otherwise getting out of hand, I'd teleport away if at full health (I ?tele'd about 3 or 4 times).

All told I think I used 6 healing and 2!*healings* and a bunch of !CCW and 30+ !CLW. I was extremely lucky with my staffs of speed all game. I had 4 at home, and two in my inventory. I never backfired on one of them. Recharged it 10 times? Probably closer to 20. I used it a lot in the final few levels and only recharged it when I needed it in order to keep down on drain charges. I kept finding ?recharging, too, so it was a system that worked really well. I don't think Morgoth drained charges at all during our fight, but I also kept the charges between 0 and 2. I carried around a lot of swaps during the late game. Azahgal was really key in keeping my inventory and taking down certain Uniques.

I never used ?Banishment or ?Mbanishment or ?*destruction* or ?RoP during the fight. I never TO'd M, but did TO a few summons over the course of the fight. Honestly I probably coulda done the fight without even TOing anything. M's destruction and me ?phasing really worked wonders for me.

In the end my game took 92K turns. I found a good deal of *healing* and healing potions in a DL98 or DL99 vault on an 8 feeling level that had lots of magical items. I have no idea what gave the level that feeling. It had 4 slow RoS, but on another level I found RoS with a 1 feeling. So at DL 98/99 (where I spent about 4 levels or so) items have to be *really* good to give a high feeling. In the early DL90s God of Wrath (or something), a green book, gave a 7 feeling. I have no idea what gave the 8f. Certainly not the short bow of Lórien? I found 3 Longbows of Lórien in another lategame vault, so they seem fairly common. I found Nenya on a 7 or 8 feeling on DL99 just lying on the floor in an ordinary room.

During our first meeting Sauron raised me through the ceiling so between that and WoR I never used an upstaircase the entire game. I had a lot of "close" calls during the game. I say "close", because I would only heal enough to just survive something I was fighting's worst attack (relying on ESP). So a few times in the late game my HP reached the double digits. Otherwise, it was pretty smooth sailing.

I found no rods of healing or speed. My endgame weapon was a MoD <+2> attack speed. Without Weaponmastery or buff I was doing 626/round.

[Sky]

92k? you mean 92m ?

[Ingwe Ingweron]

92k? you mean 92m ?

92,000 standard turns sounds about right for a good speed run. I'm always trying to beat 100,000 standard turns, sometimes I make it, sometimes I don't.

92k = 92,000 in metric nomenclature, so that makes sense.

92M = 92,000 (though usually I see this used for monetary nomenclature, where M is a Roman abbreviation for 1,000 and MM a Roman abbreviation for 1,000,000).

92m = what, 92 meters? That wouldn't make sense to me.

[Grotug]

I meant standard (92,000) as Ingwe pointed out. I think I'm gonna do a few more HT Warriors before I start exploring other combinations. I want to see if my ?phase strategy really is good, or if I just had fortunate circumstances during that fight.

I wonder if it might be more interesting if Morgoth flees or teleports if @ is healthy at the time M is nearly dead? Seems some last moment trickery by the final boss wouldn't be too unreasonable to expect.

[Sky]

i'm CL28 and have already used 3 million turns.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

i'm CL28 and have already used 3 million turns.

Just for reference, Game Turns is not really a relevant measurement. Think of game turns as the internal computer clock. What are your @'s Standard Turns? Standard Turns are the number of player actions taken and is the measurement that allows for comparison.

[Derakon]

Just for reference, Game Turns is not really a relevant measurement. Think of game turns as the internal computer clock. What are your @'s Standard Turns? Standard Turns are the number of player actions taken and is the measurement that allows for comparison.

3 million game turns is 300k player turns at normal speed. Sky plays at a leisurely pace.

[PowerDiver]

Just for reference, Game Turns is not really a relevant measurement.

Just for reference, game turns is the *only* relevant measurement. The others were made up by people who could not believe I play as fast as I do and attributed my pace to lucky speed items. Resting is an action every bit as relevant as taking a step.

Even given role playing thinking, game turns is measuring how long Morgoth is in power with his forces ravaging the world before you stop him. None of the others measures anything meaningful in this context.

If you don't believe in game turns, the obvious alternative is to count keypresses. Nothing else is in the running.

[Ingwe Ingweron]

Just for reference, game turns is the *only* relevant measurement. The others were made up by people who could not believe I play as fast as I do and attributed my pace to lucky speed items. Resting is an action every bit as relevant as taking a step.

Even given role playing thinking, game turns is measuring how long Morgoth is in power with his forces ravaging the world before you stop him. None of the others measures anything meaningful in this context.

If you don't believe in game turns, the obvious alternative is to count keypresses. Nothing else is in the running.

You and I will have to agree to disagree. Although, I do agree on the keypresses count (with actions requiring multiple keypresses, e.g., m1a5 for magic missile targeted being counted as one keypress, i.e., one player action, being the best measurement, which as I understand it, Standard Turns is the closest analog - the number of player actions.